Navigating Career Transition: Empathy, Storytelling, and Transferable Skills with Christine Stack, VP, Head of Human Resources, Capgemini

Christine Stack, Vice President and head of Human Resources | CIS Americas at Capgemini. Christine is a results-driven and passionate leader known for her creative problem-solving, teamwork, and thought leadership. She excels as a partner, collaborator, and team builder, with a strong reputation for integrity and inclusiveness. Her consistent recognition comes from her ability to identify, attract, nurture, and retain exceptional talent. In this episode, we discuss:

• Her career pivot involved transitioning from a media background to a role in HR and Talent Acquisition
• Why empathy is crucial in establishing credibility in your field
• Unconscious bias is detrimental to organizational culture 
• Capgemini's commitment to inclusivity 
• How she addressed and overcame her own bias, emphasizing the importance of self-awareness in combating bias
• Job descriptions should be about WHAT, not the HOW
• The inherent flaw with all resumes

Follow Christine Stack on LinkedIn

Chapters

• 0:00 Career Transition and HR Insights
• 15:11 Transferable Skills and Career Change
• 25:15 Unconscious Bias and Self-Awareness

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey there, this is the Career Refresh and I am your host, jill Griffin. This week. I'm introducing you to my friend and former colleague, christine Stack. Christine is now the vice president head of human resources at Capgemini, and what's really interesting about Christine is she began her career in media and she worked her way up and through the ranks and eventually pitched herself to move into HR, which made her so uniquely qualified because she understood both the subject matter, the life and well-being of employees. She understood workplace dynamics and team dynamics all before she moved into HR.

Speaker 1: 0:38

Christine is a passionate and results-orientated talent acquisition leader. She is a champion for and a driver of change, and she consistently receives business results through creativity, teamwork, thought leadership and skillful problem-selling. Christine is a valued partner. I mean, I want to say, hands down, she's probably the best HR person I've ever worked with. She's a collaborator and she's a coach. She's all of it in one and she really takes care of noticing the details and then creating a process for change depending on whatever organization or situation or challenge she's in.

Speaker 1: 1:16

In this episode, we talk about how she pivoted and transitioned her career. You can do it too, folks. She talks about how empathy leads to your credibility in your subject matter and your field of excellence. We talk about unconscious bias and how it is a culture crusher, why Capgemini hosts inclusion circles, and how she unexpectedly uncovered her own bias and what she did to root it out. We also then talk about how job descriptions need to be focused on the what and not the how. We have a bit of a giggle about how all resumes are inherently flawed. Now listen, we recorded this when I was on the road, so Christine's sound is excellent. My sound a little wonky, but you can hear it and listen.

Speaker 1: 2:02

In the life of an entrepreneur and a small business owner, what can I tell you? All right, friends. As always, questions. You definitely want to email me at hello at jillgriffincoachingcom. We will bring Christine back. We already discussed how we were going to come back and talk about the nature of algorithms and the applicant tracking software. We also talked about having a deeper dive into unconscious bias. So anything you want to hear, definitely email us, and I know you're going to listen and wish that Christine was your HR head. She's amazing. All right, friends, have a great week, listen in and I'll see you next time. Hi, christine, welcome. I'm so glad that you've joined me here today.

Speaker 2: 2:41

Jill, I am so excited. It's been far too long, but it feels like we haven't missed a beat. I'm so excited to be here, thank you.

Speaker 1: 2:49

I know I feel like we're back in one of our executive leadership meetings back in the day. It's awesome, oh my goodness.

Speaker 2: 2:56

But we don't have that putrid green paint. No offense to our days at MediaVest, but we don't have that paint or the carpeting, so that's kind of nice, right, little better, and we have our own snacks, true?

Speaker 1: 3:18

So I want to start with the way I ask all of my guests and I always say bring us back and let our listeners know. What did you think you wanted to be when you grew up?

Speaker 2: 3:29

Oh, my goodness, all right. So I love this question. I've heard you ask it before and I have two answers to that. My funny answer is I wanted to be Princess Leia. I mean, who didn't? Oh?

Speaker 1: 3:40

I thought it was.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Princess Leia, but I have dressed up for her or as her for Halloween several times. So I feel like, okay, I've gotten that kind of answer, so you were her. And when I retire I do have this dream of playing her at Galaxy's Edge in Disney, either in LA or Florida. I'm not precious about it, but we'll see. That's my retirement.

Speaker 1: 4:06

I can see with your long hair we can also do Princess Leia circa back then and do the wee braids on the sides of your head.

Speaker 2: 4:14

Hands down. That's why everybody asks why I haven't gotten the mom cut all these years. This is what I'm holding out for. I need a braid. I need a big braid. I need it to be versatile. A bad braid I love it.

Speaker 2: 4:26

So that's my first answer. But my real answer is I wanted to be a veterinarian for a very long time, so you're not yeah, yeah, I just love animals still due to this day. It morphed back and forth from marine biology veterinary school and I think I just got into a lot of different things, and you and I both know we'll probably talk today. My path is not a linear one, so it never stuck. But you know, funnily enough, we've been watching like these zoo shows. We're really pressed for it. It's football season, right, so now we go to football, but when there wasn't football over the summer, we turn on these zoo shows or like this animal kingdom show that you know, they show the vets behind the scenes and I get a little achy and it's the only time, because I'm very happy with the career path that I've been fortunate enough to have. But that's the only thing where I get a little like you to say what if We'll see, we'll see, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Well, I see a connection that I'll. We'll see if it plays out in our conversation today. Okay, but our listeners don't know yet. So we're going to obviously have you tell your story and we'll see if that connection shows up the way my gut hit, just that it might Suspense. So I'm going to say I love for you from a high level, kind of take again our listeners through your career and how you got to your role at Cap Gemini today.

Speaker 2: 6:08

Yes, sure it's a hit is again not a linear story. So I went to Ithaca College and I went. I wanted to be a journalist initially, that's what I was majoring in and I really was drawn towards advertising. So when I graduated, started right away actually August 16th is my anniversary day and started in advertising, in media specifically, which, of course, is where you know I kind of met and so I loved media. I loved everything about media planning. I loved, you know, the math of it. I love the fun of it. It was a great time to be in media because you got to hang out with salespeople and go to magazine parties, but you also got to slice and dice numbers and you got to get to know the consumer and what was driving them and what kind of media they were using. And so it was fascinating.

Speaker 2: 7:11

And I did that and rose up the ranks there for about a decade, met my husband in advertising and, you know, got married. It we actually had worked on the same account together and then when we got back from our honeymoon, they were like yeah, they're like this is probably illegal, so so they split us up and you know, well, ending ending that journey, got pregnant, had our first daughter and I Came back from at least, and I came home crying. And so, you know, my husband said to me Listen, you know what you're doing. I've never, you know, I will never tell you what to do with your career. I will support you a hundred percent, hot, two hundred percent. But I can't watch you do this to yourself. So tell me how I can help you figure this out. Tell me what you need from me. And I just said I need to figure out what else I want to do, and I just need a little bit of Buffer to do that.

Speaker 2: 8:30

And maybe I even needed permission, which he was like that's ridiculous, you never need permission or anything. So a friend of mine at the time actually got me as a joke of careers for dummies book because I was like I'm having a big crisis and I look through it and I started to make my lists right, because that's what good media planners do, and I made my list of the things that I love about my job and the things that I don't, and Everything I loved about my job had to do with people.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Had to do with interviewing people, talking with people, learning and development, you know, assessing people, making sure they got promoted, making sure they were recognized. And I said I think I want to go into HR. So Found that, went down to HR and I was like, hey, I'm gonna resign. I was at me. Thank you, mccann Erickson, for this opportunity. I went down to McCann I said, hey, I want to resign, but I really like a job in a jar and they're like that's adorable. You have no classical training. So you know, we'll put you like part-time for a little bit and then you'll figure out what's what. And so I stayed on. I gave them three months notice, transition my new person. And on my last day that I was supposed to be with them, they said you know what we can actually use someone in recruiting you know as like a part-time recruiter To kind of shake things up, set up systems. You're really great in spreadsheets because you're a media person.

Speaker 2: 10:12

You know, set some process and set some guidelines and put these things together, and I said I'll do it. So it was, it was truly a gift and I was able to spend the next I don't know probably three, six months part-time working in HR, getting to know individuals in HR, getting to know what they did, and then Really kind of just going out and canvassing, meeting HR directors at different, you know, magazines. I tapped into my network, essentially I tapped into all my sales folks, all my TV folks, and said can I meet with someone In your HR department so I can get to know them? And I really just started building relationships. When push came to shove, I had known the HR lead at the time at media vest and she said you know, we're just opening up a role for a recruiting lead. We don't have one. You know the business. You've done this. Now you have HR experience. How about you interview for it? And the rest is history.

Speaker 2: 11:20

And media vest. I just credit media vest and the chance that Laura Desmond took on me all those years ago and, honestly, all of the leaders and all of the people there-.

Speaker 1: 11:34

We have phenomenal leaders. We really did.

Speaker 2: 11:36

Yeah, we really, really did. They still do. And I was there for a long time. I was there like I don't know, I'm 78 years, I don't know. I have to look at my LinkedIn profile again. And then after that I took that recruitment lead role and I parlayed it into recruitment roles, hr roles. After that it's just a landslide.

Speaker 2: 12:00

After that I was approached by a search firm and they were starting up a contingency executive firm. I was like you know what? I've never done this before. This sounds really interesting. And they were like you can build it the way you wanna build it. And so I did that. And so I got really that sense of being an entrepreneur through that experience. You had to build everything from scratch. There was nothing there. I was accustomed to that. I always I had to build the recruitment role from scratch. I held a build recruitment teams from scratch. I essentially went in and kind of blew up HR org structures and redid those. So I was accustomed to it. But this was a different ball game altogether. So I was very fortunate in that sense too. But again, that opportunity came from the relationship building and the networking that I had done prior to that. So people-.

Speaker 1: 12:58

I wanna pause there for one second.

Speaker 2: 13:01

Yeah, yeah, we just drive that home for our listeners?

Speaker 1: 13:03

So what I'm hearing is a couple of things. Is that one, it was your natural curiosity and your ability to do research which then helped you not only make relationships but keep those relationships. And then also networks. So you really relying on your network One of the things I talk about a lot that, like it doesn't really matter what you choose to do for a living, but if you don't know people in your industry or your network or your company or the competition companies, right, Competition, sure, but you can still know people that work at the other business, right, so making sure that you have those things is so essential.

Speaker 1: 13:39

What I'm also hearing you say because, as our listeners are zoning in on this, is that you went from. You stayed within the category that you worked in, but you moved around in different roles. So, going from recruiter to HR and, having started as a subject matter person, right, you started in media. So therefore you understood inherently what people are going to be doing who work for that company. Right, Because HR is obviously adjacent to the core of work and yet so important and to be embedded in the core of work otherwise it ain't gonna work right.

Speaker 1: 14:16

So I love that. You pointed out that. So also hearing the entrepreneurial side of thing, your systems thinking to all of the tools that you've been teaching yourself, whether you realize it or not along the way, is really what led yourself to success, and I love that because so many people I talked to as you said, right from the beginning it wasn't linear. It's not always a linear journey, but I look at it like building a snowman You're constantly collecting and building that snowball to put the next snowball, the next snowball, and you need to collect all of those experiences to create, you know, your own personal brand and your career narrative.

Speaker 2: 14:51

No question, yes, summarize perfectly. And the only thing I'll add to that is transferable skills. That's your snowball, that's what you're gathering Whether I had no idea that when I looked at it in retrospect I got it, but I had no idea at the time. And any advice I would give anyone is you wanna change your careers, work with those transferable skills and work within your network and people you trust, because without those two pillars, that foundation, you're not gonna have the credibility that it will take to convince someone to take the road less traveled.

Speaker 2: 15:35

They'll always say that's adorable, you don't have any classical planning right, and they'll very politely shut the door. Well, you haven't done this, or I don't see this title in your resume, whatever it might be. But if you can say and now that we are hopefully moving to more of a skills-based mentality as a culture, hopefully, when you look at your transferable skills, that will create for you your own unique value proposition In retrospect, that's what I did is to say well, listen, I may not have been an active recruiter and I may not have that title, but I have done this, I have put this together. I have coordinated internship programs, I've coordinated campus programs. I have interviewed countless numbers of people. I have hired countless numbers of people and all of those look like they're transferable skills to me. Yes, really, really smart.

Speaker 2: 16:39

Sometimes people are just lazy. They want what's going to be the fastest, easiest, quickest solution, and you have to be able to use those skills to create your unique value proposition so you can sell yourself. It's hard to do.

Speaker 1: 16:56

Yeah, now, I mean brilliantly said, and it's a lot that when I work with clients privately or if I'm doing a group session with people, it's the same thing. It's like someone recently I was talking to who was a paralegal and now is breaking into audio production. Amazing, the idea of like, well, but how do I do that? It was pausing and okay, so in a paralegal, how did you summarize it? How did you do the research? How did you tell the story? How did you figure out the story? Guess what being a producer is about telling a story, putting those pieces together and just watching the individual and the fireworks going off and then being like, oh my God, and that's what you and I have worked in and around media and marketing. But even those that work in media and marketing, it's really hard sometimes to tell your own story. That's what's essential. It's like working with a mentor, a guide, obviously hiring a coach, finding someone, even a friend, a colleague that you can bounce off, like ways of telling that story so that you're able to show those transferable skills.

Speaker 1: 17:58

It's so even to get promoted within your company. You need to show how your experience on this team, working on this piece of business or this project, how it can parlay you into the next piece of project. It's such a valuable scale. Agree, I'll let you nail it. You totally brought that through. And then also, I think what's interesting too is you have the experience of both being an employee and working for yourself. Yes, yes. So tell me about some of that. What was that experience like? You know what. Now you're back working for a world renowned organization, but what did you? Let me be more specific. What did you bring back from your self-employment back into your corporate world that you found most beneficial?

Speaker 2: 18:44

Oh, great question. So working for myself came the right place at the right time. I was tapped out a bit in terms of what I had been doing and I didn't want to take direction from anyone or anything. I wanted to build it myself. I wanted to do what I wanted on my terms, on my own timeline, and that's the reason and I had the entrepreneurial skills from the search firm and I had a network of folks that said and of course I asked them if I were going to do this, what would I need to do or what would you be looking for? And I created that unique value proposition from that. So, again, when I went from search firm to moral compass, that's exactly how I approached it.

Speaker 2: 19:37

What I've brought to the table was actually almost aided by the pandemic, because I learned how to be disciplined, how to work on my own, how to create my own different points of focus, how to get things done and move things forward, and how to be. I've always been accountable for what I've done, but I had to really be accountable for it, because it made a difference in terms of the income that was coming in, and so I had to work even a bit harder. I didn't have the typical resources that I would have. I didn't, but I could do it on my own time.

Speaker 2: 20:17

And then, as the pandemic hit, I noticed that people were struggling with not being in an office, not having that structure, not having that rigor. But because I had done it and because I basically kind of self-taught myself this new way of working One, I was able to transition fairly seamlessly. Two, I was able to help others who were struggling with it from a professional standpoint. And three, I was able to help my kids too at the time, because they were obviously they were in upheaval as well. No one knew up from down, and so I think in retrospect that came at the right place, right time, Definitely when I started it, because I needed that breather of not being tied to an organization anymore. But it also helped me in the future.

Speaker 1: 21:21

I know it and I think that's an tremendous gift. That again maybe you didn't realize it at the time that you created for yourself, where working for yourself, there's amazing things about it, but it's not perfect. And working for an organization, there are amazing things about it it's not perfect. So how you choose to weave those experience and go back and forth, you may many people may be an independent or self-employed or a contractor and then wanna work for an organization, vice versa. But I think what has always impressed me about you, christine, is that you've always worked on all sides of the table, so that it's really given you meaning a recruiter, an HR, working in media, working in people, experience and talent acquisition, all the different areas of your profession and things that touch it, which just makes you like I almost see it as like your spiraling upwards right. It just makes you that much more of an empathetic and strategic leader cause you're seeing all of it.

Speaker 2: 22:22

That's thank you. Thank you so much. I never even thought of it in that. Now I have this spiral upward visual and I love it. I'm gonna have my daughter sketch that out, but I do appreciate that Cause.

Speaker 2: 22:36

I mean, listen, we all don't know what we don't know, right, right, right. And in some respects, like, yeah, I can sound pretty confident right now, but sometimes you make it up as you go along and if you make mistakes you just recalibrate, like you just go for it, you just learn from it. And I'll touch on one other thing, that empathy. And I was just I was just talking to somebody else about this man, without having an open mind to understand other people's perspectives, to have a level of empathy, to just say, like you know, listen, I respectfully disagree, but tell me more about that and we'll see if we will see what we can. I wanna learn Without that. That's another piece of that credibility. You know, like just own up to what I don't know and then teach me. Teach me what I don't know, and if I don't learn it then shame on me, but if I do, then we're stronger together for it.

Speaker 1: 23:43

Yeah, yeah, so, but without empathy and understanding.

Speaker 2: 23:46

You don't have that.

Speaker 1: 23:47

You don't have that. So I know we're coming towards the end of our time, but I wanted to ask you just a couple of rapid fire sort of questions. You and I have talked previously around unconscious bias in the workplace and I wondered if you could share, sort of as a leader and as head of HR, how you're navigating that both personally, how you're seeing it with an end all organizations, we all come to everything with our own bias, and how you navigate that.

Speaker 2: 24:20

Yeah, unconscious bias is a culture crusher and we all have it, hands down. I don't care if you've been in the business. Two minutes, two decades, 200 years, we all have it and I'll tell you, from a recruiting perspective, you'd be like oh it has a recruiter, you shouldn't have it. You shouldn't say that. I work on it every single day and there are so many different types of biases. We could do a whole session, we could probably do multiple sessions on this alone.

Speaker 1: 24:56

And we will. We'll bring you back that and we'll definitely go deeper. I love it.

Speaker 2: 25:00

There we go, there we go. We're actually. I'm just going to do a shout out to CapGemini. We host inclusion circles within our organization where leaders at the director and above level will host very small, intimate groups. Nothing is recorded, Nothing is tracked, but really it's just a platform for individuals to hear more about diversity and inclusion and to hear more about unconscious bias what it is and just make ourselves self-aware of it and have a constructive discussion around it.

Speaker 2: 25:35

And I think that that's the key to it the self-awareness piece. If you can't get to the self-awareness piece of unconscious bias, then everything else falls apart. It's like putting a coffee table on two toothpicks. It's just not going to work right. And if you think further to that, if you think that, well, if I take an unconscious bias training, I'm going to be fine, then you're wrong. You've got to work on it and I don't care. Maybe you have the rigor and structure in your recruitment team, Maybe you've got the rigor and structure in terms of, hey, I know I'm supposed to be rating this candidate or this employee.

Speaker 2: 26:21

If you're doing talent reviews on these leadership dimensions, it is all subjective at the end of the day. And if you allow unconscious bias, you're not self-aware enough to realize that you have, say, an affinity bias. I learned we talked about this before but I learned years ago that I had an affinity bias to other working moms and I'm like, oh my god, I've got to cut this shit out. I can curse, right, I heard somebody else curse on him. I was like, yeah, but I've got to restrain this. I can appreciate another working mom on a personal level, even in a professional level, but at the end of the day, how do we step away and say, does this person have the skills, the qualifications, the attributes to work within the confines of this company, this culture and the roles and responsibilities of this role? Further than that, do they have the potential to be mobile within the organization in the future, Within the organization? That's a lot to put on people, but it starts with being self-aware about what your biases are and chipping away at it every single day.

Speaker 1: 27:39

I think what you've said there is so important, because even my this is very meta. My bias of bias is that we always think that bias means that we're negatively putting someone in a different group because of how they speak, what they say, maybe how they represent visually. We think that it's always because we're being negative towards them, but in this case, an affinity bias is almost like a little bit of a favoritism towards them and to your point, the end of the day, the self-awareness is going to stop and say how is this individual potentially within the pool of candidates being the right person for the job? And I think that's something that even I don't even think about like a positive bias in that way. But it still can then create a fracture in your culture where someone can then show up and be like, oh if.

Speaker 1: 28:31

I'm not a mom, I don't fit here right. So I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 2: 28:37

And I'll tell you if your leaders aren't writing, editing, reading, reviewing the role descriptions for the roles that they are recruiting for, hiring, for even having their arsenal right now, that's no good. They need to be held accountable for what this person needs to do, why they need to do it, how they need to do it, because that's the only thing that's going to keep us on the straight and narrow. You got to keep on the skills. You got to keep on that because otherwise it can be very subjective. It really really can be. It's hard to do.

Speaker 1: 29:16

I'm not saying it happened. Yeah, sorry to interrupt you. What I also love about that is that I do a lot around disability awareness and, as an invisible disability activist myself, it's like understanding, even on that side of inclusion, someone depending if they have a visual or non-apparent disability still has to do the job. How they do it may be different and that's the accommodation, but they still have to do the job. So, making sure when you're writing job descriptions if there is a specific way it needs to be done for either a legal or fiduciary reason, fine. But if it's about just the end result, then making sure that the job description is about results, not necessarily the path to get there, because that's how we also create a much more inclusive workplace.

Speaker 2: 30:07

Yes, Completely agree, you got it.

Speaker 1: 30:11

So, just as we wrap, tell us what I mean. I know that I'm asking you the person, not you, kat Gemini, but what are you seeing in the market Meaning we've come through? I say it all the time wages are still incredibly high, unemployment is still incredibly low, yet there are a lot of people looking for jobs, right?

Speaker 2: 30:33

Yes.

Speaker 1: 30:34

The jobs that are available may not be the right job for you. So what is it that you would say if you were to give candidates a little bit of advice out there? What are you seeing that can help them stand out as they go through this process?

Speaker 2: 30:49

Oh boy, it's so tough. I think that in terms of standing out, I'm trying to think of this from a recruiting perspective, but where I always struggled when people applied for roles or raised their hand for roles is that, just as much as a leader needs to understand rule description, people wouldn't be qualified or they wouldn't like if you had 10 bullet points on what you need that person to do or the qualifications were clear. It wasn't evident anywhere that an individual had transferable skills to do the role or were qualified for it. I think that, honestly, that gives someone such a leg up in the market.

Speaker 2: 31:37

When you can tell your story, whether or not that means you have maybe two versions of your resume. Maybe you're thinking about going in a few different directions. I've had that before too. Where I have an HR resume, I have a recruitment resume and it speaks to. It's not brain surgery, it's just moving things around because I've done everything. But sometimes the way that you stand out is playing to the audience, not telling them what they want to hear if you haven't done it, but giving it to them and presenting it to them in a fashion that tells your story and why you should be in that role, because you know you can do it. You either have done it or you've done these things that support it. That's what it is To me that stands out. It's not reaching out to me on LinkedIn and telling me that you're interested in a role, that maybe you're at a manager level and you saw a VP role. I'm so sorry. I sadly can't do anything for you.

Speaker 2: 32:49

There's just too much of a gap in terms of leadership dimensions. But if you tell a story as to how you want to eventually get there, that's really compelling, that's really exciting, because we have such drive and ambition. This organization, of course, other organizations I worked at that. Someone's going to pick up on that and say you know what? You can't teach that. I see that this person has done those things, but I love the drive and you can't teach that. And I love the self-awareness and you can't teach that.

Speaker 1: 33:23

Yes, Again, my regular listeners know this. You said it is perfect. The inherent flaw with resumes is they are status reports of what you've done. You have to bring the resume and tell the story and help paint the picture for how those transferable skills, how you've created impact, how you're collaborative. Again, the stories for whatever the job description is, you have to help that person see that story because otherwise you know recruiters, whether they're in-house or external, or HR is handling this either way, there's such a volume of work and they have to get a couple of candidates in. If it's too hard for them, they're going to skip over you because it's like, oh, this might not be the right person. Right, Telling that story. I love that. You nailed that.

Speaker 2: 34:12

Yes, awesome Algorithms can also kill creative hiring.

Speaker 1: 34:17

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:18

We have two follows up.

Speaker 1: 34:20

We have a deeper unconscious bias and we're going to talk about algorithms Sounds great. We'll make a series. Yeah, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it and I know that our listeners definitely got a lot out of the whole. Transferable skills, the unconscious bias, the empathy and the workplace all things that people are leaning in on and going okay, how do I bring that forward? So I really really thank you for the share and the talk. It's great.

Speaker 2: 34:46

Thank you, thank you. This has been spectacular. Thank everybody for listening. I really, really appreciate the time with you. I truly do.

Speaker 1: 34:54

Awesome. I'm going to put Christine's information in the show notes so you can follow her on LinkedIn, as always. Appreciate you being here and listening. Any questions? Email them to hello at jillgriffincoachingcom. Any FAQs? Again, we're going to bring Christine back and we can talk about it more and you get to talk to a head of HR. A top person of top company really rates up. So thanks again, christine.

Speaker 2: 35:16

It's my absolute pleasure. Thanks everyone.