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The Career Refresh with Jill Griffin: Leadership & Career Strategy for Leaders
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Jill Griffin is a leadership strategist and advisor whose work has been featured on Adam Grant’s WorkLife podcast and published in Forbes, Fast Company, HuffPost, and Metro UK. She has also been quoted in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Departures, and Ad Age. Connect with Jill on LinkedIn or learn more at GriffinMethod.com.
The Career Refresh with Jill Griffin: Leadership & Career Strategy for Leaders
Thank You Notes and Your Professional Brand: Do You Really Need to Send One?
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Kristian Schwartz spearheads The Montgomery Group, a boutique search firm he established, specializing in senior-level marketing and media placements. He is known throughout the industry for his thank-you notes.
In this episode, we explored the power of thank-you notes and their impact on your professional brand. Whether digital or handwritten, thank-you notes create lasting impressions and show genuine appreciation. In this episode we discuss
- The benefits of sending thank you notes.
- What happened when a top company didn't receive any thank you notes from their leading candidates
- Should they be digital or handwritten?
- How do different generations feel about thank-you notes?
- How thank you notes contribute to your professional brand
Show guest:
Kristian Schwartz, a seasoned leader with over 20 years in digital transformation and marketing, transitioned to executive search at Korn Ferry, rising to Senior Partner. His professional journey is a testament to his expertise, with tenure at renowned companies such as Wired Magazine, Razorfish, and Sapient, where he collaborated with influential Fortune 500 brands like Visa, Verizon, Clorox, Unilever, and Hewlett-Packard. Kristian founded The Montgomery Group, a boutique search firm., specializing in senior marketing and media placements. He holds a B.S. in Microeconomics from the University of Oregon.
Jill Griffin, is a leadership and career strategist, executive coach, and host of The Career Refresh podcast. She works with high achievers to strengthen their leadership, navigate career transitions, build effective teams, and create what’s next.
With 20+ years of experience at companies like Coca-Cola, Microsoft, Hilton, and Martha Stewart, Jill brings a practical, real-world lens to leadership, decision-making, and career strategy.
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The Power of Thank You Notes
Speaker 1Hey , welcome back . I'm your host , Jill Griffin . Today we are talking about the power of the thank you note , and what I have seen a lot on the socials and LinkedIn and in Fishbowl is that people aren't sending them . They said , well , you know , I shook the person's hand in the interview or at the end of the Microsoft Teams meeting , I said thank you and that should be enough . And like this makes me want to like ah , sending a thank you note , whether it is digital or handwritten , and we're going to talk about , you know , some of that in this episode is showing the recipient and those involved that you go above and beyond , that you have an attention to detail and that you care .
Speaker 1And for this conversation today , I am bringing on my friend and former colleague , Christian Schwartz . He spearheads the Montgomery Group , which is a boutique search firm that he established , specializing in senior level marketing and media placements . He is a strategic leader that is renowned for elevating premier brands through a blend of both strategic hiring and consulting expertise . His experience spans Wired Magazine , Razorfish , Sapient . He's also collaborated with influential Fortune 500 brands like Visa , Clorox , Verizon , Unilever , Hewlett Packard . And I'm bringing him on because while we were colleagues in different offices with a very large , 100,000 person plus holding company . He was known for his thank you notes and he actually hand wrote thank you notes on gorgeous stack and it made him stick out for me , to me in the amount of people that we were talking to on a regular basis and I work with amazing people in all the offices , but here is someone that stuck out that I never to this day I have never met him in person , and one of these days one of us is going to get to Atlanta or New York City when the other one is in town and we're actually going to grab a cup of tea or coffee . I brought Christian on because he , I think , is one of the masters in thank you notes and we have a discussion . We agree , I would say 99% , on everything . He keeps his thank you notes . Myself , living in a New York City apartment , I take pictures of my thank you notes and save them .
Speaker 1We're going to talk about why we do that . We also talk about how this is about your professional brand . A professional brand is about a . We do that . We also talk about how this is about your professional brand . A professional brand is about a few different things , but if you think about it from the lens of uniqueness , making sure you have a point of difference and you're differentiating yourself . There's a professionalism in it and attention to detail in it , making yourself memorable , driving with consistency and authenticity and , obviously , that emotional connection , which is all part of a brand . I also like to think that a brand consists of a professional brand , consists of the personality and your point of difference you bring , your proficiency or your skills and your sales that you bring .
Speaker 1And then also , it often connects to the pain point , and the pain point can be anything from the thing that annoys the heck out of you , the thing that , oh , I'm never going to want to go through this thing again . Right , it's that pain point that you then take a stand on and that's what connects to you , that you are representing . That not on my watch . We are not going to not appreciate our customers or our clients or our employees , so we're going to always send thank you notes . Right , that's where it connects in . So give a listen .
Speaker 1As always , I want to hear from you . Do you send handwritten notes ? Do you send digital notes ? Do you send text messages ? Do you hit them up in the DMs on LinkedIn and say thank you that way . Do you think that they're silly and you don't want to do them at all ? I want to hear from you . So either comment on my socials , email me at hello at jillgriffincoachingcom . Friends , embrace possibility , Be thankful , Send those notes and , as always , be kind . I hope you enjoyed this episode and I'll see you next time . Christian , welcome back .
Speaker 2Thank you for having me .
Speaker 1All right , my friends Christian and I were talking because I saw a post on LinkedIn about the power of thank you notes and how the handwritten thank you note being such a lovely thing to receive and then , of course , the actual typed written thank you note is also equally important . And then I was wandering around and fishbowl and some other places and I was seeing the disdain for people , from people saying they hate thank you notes . They never write them , they don't include cover letters . I mean , sometimes they're optional , sometimes they're not , but if they're not , you need a cover letter and how people just feel like they're not needed .
Speaker 1And , oh my gosh , here's my friend , christian , that I've known for many years , that has these gorgeous stock quality thank you notes . It's one of the things that built our relationship , because every time we talked I got a gorgeous thank you note from Christian in the mail , and it's what built our relationship . He lives in Atlanta , I live in New York City . We wouldn't have probably met . Well , we worked for the same holding company , but we probably wouldn't have met at some point . So I want to talk to you about this , christian , because you and I completely disagree with some of the wisdom out there that , oh , you don't need thank you notes and you don't need to do anything cover letters or anything that goes the extra step . My work stands for itself . What say you ?
Speaker 2Where to get started . Send it , send the handwritten thank you note , and I think one thing that I've realized is that marketers fail in marketing themselves and that we spend time focusing on the customer experience , the customer journey , surprise and delight , but yet is an email in your inbox . No one gets an email in their inbox and is happy about it , right ? So you're going to send somebody a thank you note via an email , or some people don't even send those . I would say maybe 50% of people send email . Thank yous much less a handwritten note , and all I can say is I love receiving a handwritten thank you note . It is amazing , it feels good and it's an extension of your brand . It's how you think about yourself , it's how you feel about yourself , and it takes two minutes , it probably costs $2 . Why wouldn't you ? I can't think of a single reason why you wouldn't do it .
Speaker 1I mean , you've said so many things that I want to come back to . So the first thing you said was how many marketers forget that they have to also market themselves , whether you're going for an opportunity internally , whether you want to network and make connections within the industry you work in , or whether you're actually interviewing outside of the company you're currently at , or you're unemployed and you're looking for your next opportunity . It is a marketing campaign . People , you are the product . The sell sheet is the resume . We need to make sure that we are marketing yourself , and part of that and that is the other thing you said that I love , christian is it's about the extension of your brand . What does your brand stand for ? And you show me those things by the way .
Speaker 1You show up around the experience of what we call the job interview and sending me a thank you note , right One . It makes me . It makes it memorable . I work with a lot of recruiters doing what I do as an executive and career coach . Right , it's made me . It's made you memorable to me and why we continue to build our relationship over the years . It's the attention to detail . You know digital communication . If that's what works for you , that's the very least table stakes as writing a thank you note . And it's showing that attention to detail in that handwritten note that I just think is such that extra personal touch that creates that emotional impact . That isn't that what you want . That creates that emotional impact . That isn't that what you want , and you said it when we were talking before Christian about don't you want to show them that you're going to go and think of that attention to detail or go that extra mile or be really thoughtful when you're in the job , and this is one of the ways to show it .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's . You know , when I started the Montgomery Group I remember this specifically I went to Starbucks and I sat down and I was thinking about what is my positioning right ? And you start thinking about upper right-hand quadrant transformation , some sort of transformative technology , and I came to the realization that , you know , no , it's about relationships . And if you look at the bottom left-hand corner , what's it about ? It's about showing up , it's about authentic , it's being real , it's following through and delivering . Sure , the upper right-hand quadrant stuff exists , and it was a light bulb that went off , which is people are in this digital era and they send text messages and they send LinkedIn messages . And it's like you know what ? How do I genuinely say thank you for someone taking the time to speak with me ? Nobody needs to speak with me , right ? And how do I genuinely say thank you ? An email ? Come on , you're jamming someone's inbox , right ?
Speaker 1You're going to get lost . I mean , there's a chance again the email breaks through , but the odds are they have newsletters going into that email box , plus every other person in their company is going into that email box .
Speaker 2you're gonna get lost so the last two jobs that I had , I remember I started work and on the first day the hiring manager had my thank you notes sitting on their desk , oh , and they saved it for a good period of time and it just completely stuck with me of just how important it is . And also , too , is your point of good card stock , which is early on in my career . I remember this was before I knew anything about letterpress and printed materials , but there were some senior people that were evaluating someone's business card . It was kind of like American Psycho and they're like it's letterpress . Look at the card stock . And I think it was one of the Goodby cards in San Francisco , maybe because they were always letterpress and they were beautiful . And they gave me advice and they just said you know , whenever the time comes you have to pick . You know , business card letterhead et cetera , pick something so nice , they'll never throw it away . And it's true and I have . I have a drawer full of cards that people have sent me because I feel bad throwing it away and so I keep it . And you know , hey , if you can stick in someone's mind like that , that's pretty amazing .
Speaker 2One other thing , too , is there was a search that I worked on with a fortune 50 company an incredible role . The candidates were all . Everybody wanted this role . It was an incredible role and the hiring manager called me and said I'm really challenged by this . The entire finalist slate . Nobody has sent a thank you note , no way . We were discussing whether we should start over and how important it is . Or is it a matter of just that we are aging we're not even that old , and that we should lower our expectations ? And it's interesting ? But I think why do you need to lower your expectations If you can face the bar view as a marketer ? Differentiate yourself .
Speaker 1Yeah , so I think that's a good point . So let's look at the other side of it , right ? So anyone listening you know if you're newer in your career Gen Z , millennial what I often hear is that you know you've grown up with digital communication so that it's the norm just to doing emails and texts and like social messages through social media . Any of those platforms are just more familiar with you , and that's fine if everyone involved in the process is your peer in generation , right . But we know that a workplace isn't , so you need to . Again , if you're thinking about ways of your personal brand , you need to think through maybe one of the persons on the interview you do send an email to or you write them a thank you through LinkedIn , if that's how you're connected . But really think through again , it's that attention to detail the people you might be meeting with and who you think would really appreciate . I would say , send everyone a handwritten note , but again , that's what we understand .
The Power of Thank You Notes
Speaker 1So the second thing is the instant gratification , right , that expectant for instant responses , the speed of digital communication . You're expecting that you're going to send something and you're going to get an email back from the person right away . You might you also might be buried under a thousand emails in their box . I'll tell you , there was a woman once and yes , I hired her that after the interview she went out to the lobby , hand , wrote her note and delivered it back , like , clearly figured out a way to negotiate back with the security guard to get back in , to leave the handwritten note at reception for me . And then , like the next time I popped through reception , they were like , oh , you have a letter , a hand delivered letter here for you and it was the thank you note for the woman . I mean , talk about speed . And yes , she got the job genius , but left a double impression , not only having brought the stationery with her to the job interview , but took the time and wrote a really thoughtful note .
Speaker 1You know you talked about you save them all . I understand some people might have environmental concerns Okay , fair enough . I laugh and think well , I live in a New York City apartment , I don't have a home in Atlanta , I don't know that I have the space for all the handwritten notes . But , people , from a mindset standpoint , I have a photograph I took with my camera of every thank you note I've ever received .
Speaker 1I have thank you notes from clients , my days back in Microsoft and Coca-Cola people who wrote me , senior CMOs of those companies who wrote me thank you notes for the work that I did . That I have a photograph of and I have a file on my Google folders , my Google drive , that is called thank yous , because on the days where you are it just feels heavy . There is nothing better than to go and open that thank you drawer , that thank you file , and read the thank yous you've got . So if you know what emotional connection that does for you some level of that emotional connection , that meaning that that grace is going to hit someone else what do you got , christian ?
Speaker 2I love that you do that . I have the same . I have the same folder and it's when you're running your own company . You will have incredible days and you will have tough days . And if you're in the middle of a tough day it's sometimes nice to go to that folder and it's like , oh , things are great , I'm a fan , look , just send it . I say send the email and send the handwritten note . Double it up , because people they may not get the handwritten note . The corporate mailroom has always been a little bit of a mystery , and especially with COVID . Now it can make it more challenging or post , post COVID , but I think it's a matter of sending both .
Speaker 1And I've also just asked you're not sending it to their home . Let me be clear you are not stalking and finding out their home address unless they have made that known to you .
Speaker 2Ok , so it's funny you say that , because during covid I struggled and I stopped sending thank yous because to say hey , what's your home address Felt a little bit awkward . And I've been able to . With people returning to office , you can obviously direct it to the office . But I think at the same point , if someone is working from home , it's a matter of just saying you know , if you're comfortable , what is the best mailing address ? Totally , I'd like to send something to you and I've never had anybody , not , you know be okay with that .
Speaker 1Again asking someone how to be treated .
Speaker 2I'd like , I'd like , to send you a thank you note , if you're comfortable . What is the ? What is the best address ? And I've never had someone you know not be okay with that , but I think it's just , you know , send . Send the email within 24 hours . Now I am curious with you on this of length and I like . For example , my handwriting is atrocious . I call it artistic .
Speaker 1You have amazing handwriting . It's distinctive . It looks like a creative .
Speaker 2I keep it brief because it's not . It's not legible . I give my children and my wife holiday cards and I have to read them for them , but I also think it's . I just think it's good to be sincere and I've had people send me email thank you notes and it's paragraph upon paragraph and I'll be honest , I don't want a paragraph , but I think it's more of a truly honest and sincere , heartfelt thank you . And if you can summarize in an authentic way , you know maybe why you're the fit , great . But I feel like this kind of cut and paste or you know , or God forbid , it's some chat GPT generated thing which is atrocious .
Speaker 1People know when that's the case , people know and also , like you , don't use those words in your regular language .
Speaker 2So and I think it's like who are you as a human and that's and if I can see a glimpse of that , that's who we're hiring and that's that , to me , is what is what wins the day .
Speaker 1So so here's what I would say to that , and again , I love that , again , we're not . We're not differing in our opinion , it's just different angles . And I would probably use the um , the email communication , to be a little bit more specific about the role . If there was something that , after I left the interview , that I feel like I wanted to drive home or , you know , acknowledge or pull out , I might include that in the digital communication . I don't , I agree with you .
Speaker 1This is not paragraphs . This is like I mean , I don't know , maybe it's 50 to 100 words . We're talking like succinct because no one has time . Plus , most people are reading on their mobile device , not on their actual laptop , so it's like how many times you're going to scroll up the page ? So I think that you could put more detail in the digital communication .
Speaker 1Also , I don't have to decipher handwriting , so maybe it's affirming some of that , but I think the handwritten one is again hitting on that , those parts of like what was it about the conversation that you enjoyed , that you're appreciative for ?
Speaker 1How can you create that emotional impact and think about it as creating a relationship ? You may not get this job , but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't necessarily meet that person at another time in another role and come across them , and it's about again building that brand . I think it's really important and the research which is I was going to touch on there's also research to show about it . There is a book called the Power of the Handwritten Note by Kumar and Epley and it talks really about how people consistently underestimate the positive impact of expressing gratitude through handwritten notes , underestimate the positive impact of expressing gratitude through handwritten notes , and that this study shows that recipients feel more surprised and happier than the intenders had anticipated . So that idea of I get my lump of mail , which is , you know , some dead magazines and maybe a random bill that I forgot to go paperless on , and then there's a handwritten note for me that's a thank you note . How nice . What are your thoughts ?
Speaker 2I have a friend who recently started a company and it's a little bit of a tangent , but this will make sense and he said if my company is successful and I had a short circuit , literally I was like if Couldn't even believe he was saying that it's like it is not if you have to will yourself into wherever you want to be and who you are , and you know I don't want to get all woo-woo , but it's just you manifest what you want to be . And I think that's where the thank you note even if the thank you note I don't even know if 50% of my thank you notes make it I'm still going to send them because I'm putting that energy out there and just be that person , show up and just care , and I just think there's such a shortage of that . I've received this is crazy . I've received multiple thank yous to my thank you notes .
Speaker 1No , thank you .
Speaker 2It literally blows my mind . The person's like I want to show you my stationery . I'll tell you right now . That person is sealed in my mind forever . I'm sealed in their mind and we share that connection . I also think something that's important is you know , let's say you meet with an executive and the you know support staff helps schedule the meeting . Send an email to the support staff too . Let's be honest , that's the real and that's just just . Every , every time , don't send it to that person , don't , don't miss that . That is and it's just . It's the right thing to do , and those people will sometimes take it for granted and forgotten , and you know who doesn't need a little love .
Speaker 1We all love . I mean , I had a client recently tell me that it was a face-to-face interview , which a lot of our interviews are also being done virtual right but it was a face-to-face interview and she was able to figure out enough about the structure that she knew that she would be greeted , most likely by someone in the support staff who would guide her to meet the person that was doing the interview . She brought the support staff person a gift , just a little gift . The support staff person a gift , just a little gift . Like not again , not every place would this would be okay for but she brought a $20 gift card to Starbucks and a cute coffee mug which feels benign enough . Right , it's not payola , it's great , but just was like here , hope you have a bright day and you know we'll see what happens as we go on . But I assure you the next time she emails or follows up , that person who escorted her in and got the gift card and the coffee mug is going to be like oh , this person gets it .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's just the Again , just be that person . Be that person , right ? I think it's just kind of just just show up in every way and it and it sounds so strange but it's just so important . But I also think too , you know , look , if you're Jill , let's say I'm going to hire you and put you on a . You know it's , it's , it's . You're going to lead marketing for a fortune 50 brand and you can't send a thank you note . How are you going to treat that brand's most important ? You know customers or vendors , and it's just a , it's , it's those little things . Because people I'll be honest , I work much harder for people that take care of me . Who doesn't ? And it's not that I work harder , but it's a that little slice of my heart and soul , when you really take care of me , that just shows up and if you can win that over , that's , that's what it's about .
Speaker 1So All right , any final words before we wrap ?
Speaker 2Just send the thank you note . Yeah , your mom was right Send the thank you notes . I resisted when I was young . It took me too long . My teenage daughters I'm getting them on the wagon , but just send the thank you note .
Speaker 1Beautiful .
Benefits of Sending Handwritten Cards
Speaker 1Okay , so Christian mentioned Letterpress and I have a dear friend who does custom . She creates custom cards and papery and just does beautiful work . And if that is not for you or that it's not in your budget , get a set of thank you cards . You can get them , you know . You can order them online . You can go support your local business , a local stationery store , and get a set of cards so that you always have them If you have to like .
Speaker 1Oh , I have to go buy a thank you card . The odds that you're going to follow through is going to be harder . So remove the resistance and go buy yourself , you know , a $10 , 10 pack of cards , a dollar card , have a couple of stamps on hand and it's really fun to write in someone's day in such a small little way . And also , as we've been talking a lot , if you've been a long time listener , you know it's about your personal brand . All right , friends , as always , I thank you for being here . If you have any questions , you can email me at hello , at jillgriffincoachingcom , you can comment on the socials and , as always , I will see you next time .