Forging an Unconventional Path: Danny Fishman’s Journey as Co-Founder and Partner of The Room, Through Entertainment, Tech, and Personal Growth

Taking the unconventional path in your career fosters innovation and opens unique opportunities, and it takes grit. Danny Fishman, co-founder and partner of The Room and the Chameleon Collective, believes there's no substitute for hustle, a belief that fuels his perseverance and success. Embracing this mindset builds resilience, allowing Danny to adapt and thrive in a constantly changing landscape. In this episode, we discuss: 

• Charting your path
• How he overcame his fears
• His thoughts on managing rejection in business
• How he built lifelong relationships

Show Guest:
Danny Fishman is a leading figure in media and technology, with 25 years of experience driving company growth and successful exits. He co-founded Chameleon Collective and The Room and has produced award-winning digital series. Fishman holds a BS from the University of Wisconsin and a JD from John Marshall Law School. Read more on The Room and Chameleon Collective 
 

Chapters

• 0:00 Entrepreneurship and Learning Philosophy
• 10:44 Career Shifts and Overcoming Fear
• 21:44 Building Relationships Through Networking and Referrals
• 32:21 Remembering Sean Finnegan

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi friends, I'm Jill Griffin, the host of the Career Refresh podcast, and today I'm introducing you to Danny Fishman. Danny has been a personal friend and a strategic business partner of mine for over 25 years. He is prominent in the entertainment, digital media, advertising and technology industries and over the last 25 years he has led multiple companies to achieve significant growth and also have successful exits. Throughout his career, he has produced award-winning digital series and has been named iMedia's 25 Internet Marketing Leaders and Innovators. He has also been awarded several Webby's and the impressive NAPTI, which is the National Association of Television Program Executives, and he received their Digital Illuminary Award. He's known for his unparalleled network. Danny can change the climate in the room with his positive energy. He has co-founded the Chameleon Collective and the Room, both of which are leading communities of peer-to-peer both brand and agency marketer discussions and events. They bring people together and offer an opportunity for people that are experts to share common thoughts and themes and to really lead thought leadership. Before the Chameleon Collective and the Room, he held leadership roles at the Believe Entertainment Group, digital Broadcasting Group, broadband Enterprises, ifilm, all again driving to exceptional growth and successful acquisitions. Danny holds a BS from the University of Wisconsin and a JD from John Marshall Law School. He is licensed to practice law in both California and Illinois.

Speaker 1: 1:42

In this episode, danny explains how focusing on learning over the emphasis on grades became a philosophy that shaped his career, because it enabled him to relax and actually absorb the material, versus always worrying about the competition and the sharp elbows of those individuals around him. He explains how he charted his own path, how he worked to overcome fears, how he handled rejection in business and how he built lifelong relationships. All of these skills are essential for whatever it is that you're doing in your career. So, friends, lean in, grab that notes app, grab a pen and pencil if you run old school, and take down notes. Danny is dropping pearls of wisdom which I know you will benefit from and, as always, I want to hear from you. So if you have questions, email me at hello at jillgriffincoachingcom. We will get you answers, we will get your questions to Danny and, as always, friends, have a great week, stay inspired, be in possibility and be kind. Hey, danny, I'm really glad that we are finally getting to do this Welcome.

Speaker 2: 2:46

Thank you, same here.

Speaker 1: 2:49

All right, danny, you know this. I ask everybody this Tell us, take us back, tell us what you thought you wanted to be when you grew up.

Speaker 2: 2:57

What I thought I wanted to be when I grew up. It was funny. I didn't have like a specific aspiration, aside from wanting to coach the Chicago bears or the Chicago bulls or be the general manager of, or maybe the owner of the team. That's a whole different story. But I it's funny I didn't have. I I was always the kid who was selling something in the schoolyard or anything else. Literally going back, it was funny. I don't know how we would go down to Florida for vacation. There was a souvenir store. I'm the youngest of four siblings, so somehow any contraband I had older siblings to purchase me. I can't believe I'm telling this story, but there were these pens. This was like when I was five or six years old that literally you turn them upside down and the ink reveals a naked lady. I remember that.

Speaker 2: 3:50

I was selling those in the schoolyard at like six, seven years old.

Speaker 1: 3:54

Hopefully at a really good margin.

Speaker 2: 3:57

Oh no, absolutely One hundred percent.

Speaker 1: 4:01

OK, so, outside of selling illicit material to the schoolyard, what did you think you wanted to do?

Speaker 2: 4:08

I always knew I wanted to sell stuff Like I didn't know what that meant exactly, but I always knew that I wanted to. It was just always natural to me, literally like I always had these little businesses and everything else. So I think I wanted to pursue entrepreneurship before I even knew what the hell entrepreneurship was. I think I probably recognized at a young age that I'm serious about that, that I was unemployable from a real structured environment but ironically I was able to make my own structure it's funny, as you're saying this, you like I wanted to sell.

Speaker 1: 4:49

You knew you wanted to sell. It's making me think of, like, uh, john kusek's role, you know, in say anything, lloyd dobler, who's like I don't want to buy, anything sold or bought, I don't want to export anything, so, like it's wrong reference.

Speaker 2: 5:03

It's making me think of that Like a specific aspiration associated with that. As much as I was just, it would always felt natural to me to be doing something kind of selling, selling something.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Right, okay, awesome.

Speaker 2: 5:20

So take us through.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Take us through. You know you went to law school. You also have a BS from the University of Wisconsin. So you went to University of Wisconsin which again amazing school, madison, of course. And then from there, what did you study? You have a BS, but what did you study in undergrad?

Speaker 2: 5:41

So it was funny. I walked into university having no idea what I wanted to study or anything else, and it was actually funny. I had a pivotal moment in college where I was in. You know me as a pretty relaxed dude and I've always been that, but I used to actually get really stressed with school work.

Speaker 2: 6:01

And I remember having this very pivotal moment my sophomore year of college where I literally I was taking an econ final exam, first semester, and I started basically having a little bit of a panic attack while I was taking the exam and I was like breathing heavy and everything else. And after that I remember leaving there saying I never want to have a feeling again and it was a really instrumental life moment for me because that was when the light went on and it was really a philosophy that I've carried over into business that in school I wasn't there to need to worry about the grade. I was there to learn and I was always so caught up my early grades didn't necessarily reflect this, but I was always so caught up in the grade in the exam versus actually learning the course.

Speaker 1: 6:57

And.

Speaker 2: 6:57

I just had one of those pivotal moments and from then on I started really taking classes that I wanted to take versus ones that were on a path. It was interesting. So I actually got into the business school at the University of Wisconsin undergrad and I decided to pass on that and I thought that was, I was absolutely going to the business school. And then I looked at it and I had to make that decision, I think the semester after and I realized that it was way too limiting and structured. So I said you know what I want to take? Classes that are going to interest me. It was funny because I ended up taking two full years of constitutional law. I love constitutional law. I just found it to be fascinating on so many different levels. But I took everything from sociology classes, including one of my favorite classes. I took sociology of sport, which sounded like a blow-off class, but it was anything, but it was a class that I said I'm a huge sports person, I want to understand myself, I want to understand the bigger picture.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Why human Right understand and also the mindset that goes in with athletes. I would imagine the psychology there.

Speaker 2: 8:09

But it was. It was very interesting because I ended up accidentally getting a BS in pursuing classes that really intrigued me. I was always a really strong math person. It was actually interesting. I took a math course that was like a philosophical or theoretical mathematics course and I always was able to dominate in math and I remember being hit at that point where I hit my limit. But I found out right before my last semester of college I was only one physical science credit away from a BS versus a BA and it happened totally accidentally because I was just saying here's the classes I want to explore into and learn versus here's ones that are going to prop me for something.

Speaker 2: 8:55

So technically, a BS in science is what you got yes, I got a Bachelor of Science versus a Bachelor of Arts. Okay.

Speaker 1: 9:01

So then from there, you went on to law school, you got your JD, you're licensed to practice in both Illinois and California and you end up in the converging or emerging or innovative media space. So tell us what inspired you to pursue a career in those spaces after law school.

Speaker 2: 9:23

Spaghetti throwing. So I'm serious. I took the LSAT knowing I wasn't going to practice law. I come from a family of lawyers. It just I knew, hands down, I didn't want to practice law. But I had the opportunity to go to law school and again I was able to approach law school from that same mindset of learning versus actually pursuing. You know. So I hadn't a huge advantage in law school where everyone else is like competing, worry about class rank. I'm like I just want to learn this crap Right.

Speaker 2: 9:52

Which means you actually are more relaxed as you're approaching the study, versus being in that panic that you mentioned you experienced in econ, so Completely 100% more relaxed and two, was able to actually focus on what in retrospect became more mind training and problem solving and analytical thinking, problem solving even knowing the. You know the rules of the game of life and business. And I took a lot of business class. I actually took an internet law class in um when I was in law school in probably my second year, so probably about 95, 96. So I took that relatively early Um. But again, I didn't know what I wanted to do. I actually had a club promoting business while I was in law school.

Speaker 1: 10:50

That makes sense for me. Yeah, OK so you get out of law school. And then what happened? You have this club promoting business. Were you still working in that?

Speaker 2: 11:06

working in that. Well, I still have that. I was. Also my family had a small law firm. I was doing some sort of side work in that, but honestly it was more just to, kind of, you know, have a little income. But then the club promoting business provided much more income than that and I knew I wanted to make a change. I love Chicago, as anyone who knows me knows, but I wanted to change a scene. I wanted to try warmer weather and everything else. So I kind of through a little happenstance, through someone I knew, I went out to LA when my sister was visiting out there and interviewed at some talent agencies and management companies. The next thing I know I literally get a call saying all right, we're starting this new enterprise that Michael Ovitz is at the helm of next Tuesday, get in your car. So literally 48 hours later I was in my car driving across country to LA. I thought I was going to be an assistant and the next thing I know I show up and they're like oh, the assistant job that we were going to put you in isn't available. You're the mailroom, not I'm in the mailroom. I was the mailroom for this company. So it was actually.

Speaker 2: 12:15

I was pissed at first and then it gave me an opportunity to touch and explore a lot of things. So Michael was doing everything, from trying to revolutionize talent management to doing a lot of internet touching and investment, to everything's from checkoutcom to ask Jeeves and everything else. So I was able to sort of lean in and explore that and then in turn I realized that the talent management was the last thing I wanted to do. So I left there, ended up getting a sales job that I kind of talked my way into that. I was the youngest person on the sales team by a decade plus. It was all these Silicon Valley folks and ex-Apple executives and everything else where they gave me. I talked myself into a job opportunity there as their Hollywood guy, myself into a job opportunity there as their Hollywood guy. I was like their dad.

Speaker 2: 13:09

I worked at that company for almost two years until it ultimately went out of business during the internet sort of crash. But long and short, it was my opener into a deeper world of internet. It was digital rights management technology. I was dealing with all different types of web publishers. I was dealing with popcom, which was Spielberg's, and Gapin and all that company that never even launched. But I got a lot of exposure view. This company went under. And I then went to Southeast Asia for four months by myself, because I did the same thing after law school, by the way. So after I lost school, I took the bar and everybody or everyone's like oh, you got a good job. I'm like, no, I got some club promoting cash, I'm buying a one way ticket to Europe. And I went solo to Europe for six months, not to find myself, but certainly to sort of challenge my experiences.

Speaker 2: 14:03

And but that was very pivotal in then going to view within that one that company went under. And then me going to Southeast Asia for four months taking a very unconventional approach, where everybody else kept yelling at me saying you've got to get a job at everything else, and I'm like I'm just going to figure shit out.

Speaker 1: 14:24

And how did you navigate? So, danny, our listeners that are hearing this are going, but how did he tap into that decision-making? How did he know that that was the right thing for him? Like, you've made these significant career moves, you know, and as your journey goes on, it's everything from resulting in successful acquisitions to successful exits. So you've had this internal GPS, this like internal guidance. Explain to people a little bit more about it and how you tap into that, because I think that's really helpful for people to understand.

Speaker 2: 15:01

Well, it's funny because, as I think about it, the reason I went to Europe was ultimately to overcome a fear. Most of that was driven by me having actually a lot of fears at the time. So I actually, when I was a kid, I went to summer camp and it was a disaster. It was during my parents' divorce. I ended up coming home early. I dealt with really heavy and extreme homesickness, and even into college and then even into law school.

Speaker 2: 15:31

I went to Tel Aviv University for a semester in law school and I dealt with homesickness there which sounds nuts this is post-college and everything else and it was a fear of not being able to get home and fear of being away and everything else. So when I talk about when I with that trip to Europe, I said, all right, my compass is telling me that I've got a huge blocker in my way and I've got to face this directly. So the reason I went to Europe wasn't just for a fun party. It was. I have something that is really holding me back. I'm going to face that fear dead on. I bought myself a one-way plane ticket, thought I was going to go for three or four weeks.

Speaker 2: 16:14

Next thing I know 12 countries and six months later I'm still going and it really liberated me and I also met and saw a lot of people in that journey that had these unconventional lives and it really just taught me on the spot that there's no such thing as convention and that was sort of a philosophy that I've carried over. Everyone would tell me you have to do this, you have to do that. I was lucky enough, through facing fear, to say, all right, there's actually I can build my own path as well. But I think that that gave me a lot of advantage and I also think you know, when I talked about kind of the birth order, some of that stuff too, said all right, I don't have to just walk into something right away, I can actually explore and again throw spaghetti.

Speaker 1: 17:07

Okay, so was there ever a time where you doing that, you had fear of economic insecurity or you just sort of like I trust myself, I'll always make money, I'll figure it out.

Speaker 2: 17:17

Trust myself, always make money and figure out. I really did and I was, and there was times where it was a real, real lead. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:26

I remember years myself of eating like saltines and like Campbell's soup, which is lovely but not necessarily what I want to. It allowed me to go to Europe, so like, but it was not.

Speaker 2: 17:51

It wasn't a mentality of I have to find the next thing right away. I have to find the next thing right away. It was what do I want to do? What is going to satisfy me? And I had and I don't know if I would call it wisdom or just luck at that age but just said something told me don't take an easy. When I say easy, I look at a lot of my friends now who, on paper, took an easier route. Whether they went into family businesses, they went into some sort of easy not easy but corporate job or something that was sort of a natural progression from where they went into school and everything else and followed a route of security early on. And those are the people I know now who talk to me about how miserable they are, the midlife crises they have because they didn't take those chances early on.

Speaker 1: 18:50

And they've now- I think it also doesn't teach you adversity right To how to work through when challenges come up and how to work through them. If you're always on the safe path or you're always on the path that's been paved for you, it's really hard to learn how to navigate it when things don't go your way, regardless of whatever reason they don't go your way. You know it's really hard to learn how to navigate it when things don't go your way, regardless of whatever reason they don't go your way. You know it's interesting just listening to you when you were talking about your experience in undergrad, about deciding after the econ experience to learn versus pass. It's kind of the same philosophy that's been. You know it's calling something different, but it's the idea of you wanting to embrace the experience and be in the experience, versus just like check the box, I did it, got done and gone to the next thing.

Speaker 2: 19:36

So really really settling into that, whatever the experience was, whether it was travel, whether it was employment and just saying like let's see where this takes me yeah, but that's remarkable yeah, because I describe myself as an experienced junkie, right Like, and in the reason I travel as much as I do, the reason I take my kids to travel as my guy. To me, life is experience like that. That that is, and it's also just having basic life philosophies. I just want to be happy, like as as as. That sounds like it's pretty easy when you just look at things on a basic level.

Speaker 1: 20:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's a beautiful philosophy to have and it's, I think, we think about like your individual and personal values, and you and I were talking about, you know, like empathy, understanding, reciprocity. Those are the things that are basic and fundamental to you, so that when you're navigating within those, you tend to be gravitating towards and attract others who have similar philosophies that lead to that. So I want to ask you you know you've been both an employee and an entrepreneur, and right now you're back to an entrepreneur what pulled you, or can you, can you recall a moment where you were like you know what, I'm going to stay on this side and be an entrepreneur and kind of chart my own way versus being part of a company well, it's fine.

Speaker 2: 20:59

My dad's had a good sort of guidance, guiding principle for that because he, you know, he had a law firm right and a small law firm, just a small personal injury practice, but it's still. I saw the benefit of that, not just from a financial standpoint, because honestly, my dad has sort of financial ups and downs, but more my dad. My dad was very anxious, stressed person. He was not necessarily the right model for passion for work and the like, but at the same time I did have that opportunity to see that you could make your own path versus. So it never even occurred to me to get a job somewhere, big and well. I shouldn't say that too.

Speaker 2: 21:44

I also in walking into this Hollywood world and working for Michael Ovis Michael Ovis at artist management group it was the worst corporate culture you could imagine. It was. Take extreme corporate culture, add a bunch of Hollywood douchebags to the equation and suddenly you have just an environment where I'm like, oh my God, this is what a real job is like. I ran as far away from that as possible. It was one of those things. From kind of a I got a very negative exposure that I didn't want to go deeper into.

Speaker 1: 22:27

Okay, Okay. So I want to kind of dig in a little bit deeper on something that I've told you I've always admired about you is just, you know you can change the climate of a room. You bring such a force of positive positivity, positive energy into a room. You may not know this, because if you're not in the room, people are like is Danny coming? Has anyone heard from Danny? Like you don't realize that's happening because you were there and I really attribute that to both who you are and then the relationships that you create. So you have been this person who's really built friendships, relationships, networking, and that comes naturally to some people and it doesn't come naturally to others, but it doesn't mean you can't build it. So I'd love for you to talk a little bit about you building tremendous relationships in this industry that you know you and I have worked in for years, and do it through the lens of like, sharing tips for others.

Speaker 2: 23:24

Yeah, it's. It's funny because there's there's. There's obviously a lot to unpack there and I'm thinking about different aspects of that. I'm going to go back and I want to talk about, kind of from a relationship standpoint, the networking aspect of it, the prospecting, the referral aspect of it, because those are a lot of things that I think you can teach.

Speaker 2: 23:51

I'm lucky that I was always a natural extrovert, right Like, and I was just. I was one of those human beings Maybe it was birth order, for one reason or another, I always was energized by having people around me. It was just like people fed my soul and always have and always will. So but at the same time I also think people, a lot of people, misidentify. It's funny. One of my partners in the room, aaron Cohen, is professor at NYU. I was guest lecturing in his class and there was this kid in the back who raised his hand and identified him himself as being introverted and like kind of seeking my guidance out of that and everything else. And I have this you know 15 minute conversation with him across the class and everything else, and I'm like I called about it. I'm like, so let me get this straight, you're the only one in the class that raised their hand. You just had this conversation with me, this stranger, and everything else. I'm like maybe you're not as introverted as you believe you are and I think there's a part of it where I think a lot of people misidentify, mis-self-identify and everything else, and I think there's also a lot of people that you know fear gets in the way.

Speaker 2: 25:10

I get anxious at times when I walk into a room we have this Women's Leadership Summit that starts tomorrow in Ojai. Beforehand. I get nervous before I walk into those rooms. I get nervous before I walk into one of our dinners or any environment. When I was going down when I was in Cannes for the conference about a month ago, I was saying to my girlfriend I'm like I'm totally having that anxious moment before it starts. But the difference is I don't allow that to stop me and cripple me where I think a lot of people let that get in the way and prevent them. But I also think about that. I am always cold calling. I am always still at this point in my career selling, chasing things down and everything else is funny.

Speaker 2: 26:05

I sold Cutco knives in college else that's funny. I sold cutco knives in college. That was actually one of the absolute best job training environments. It's funny. I met a guy recently. We anytime I meet someone who sold cutco in the past certainly definitely a cult aspect of it. There's some people that just gone way too extreme, but it taught me. They basically give, they get convinced you to buy a set of knives and then in turn you they have a commission program that weeds people out very quickly. Right away you can earn a 10% commission on anything you sell and then if you get to like $500 in sales, suddenly it's a 20% commission. But it rewards you the more you sell to get these higher commissions and percentages.

Speaker 2: 26:51

I got lucky and I started in the North shore of Chicago so you're relatively affluent area where I had, you know, families that I could go sell knives to and the like. But what I did was I started with my friend's parents and my parents' friends and then very my parents friends and then very, very quickly every time I left one of them I would say do you have any other people that you could introduce me to other you know other parents and the like, and I learned very, very quickly the art of networking and referral and I was always fearless as far as just making those calls, whether it be a cold call but in this case a referral, which is much, much warmer. Mrs Jensen gave me your number. I would even find some of those parents who would. Mrs Jensen is the best example. She would call 30 people ahead of time and say, oh, my friend, david's friend, danny Fisherman's going to call you up.

Speaker 2: 27:52

So I walked into these warm environments but it took a lot of hustle and there is no substitution for hustle. There's no substitution for hustle and grit and just continuing that. And always, throughout my entire career and the rest of my career, I will still make a point to always be doing personal cold outreach myself, not just leaving that to other people, but the warm stuff and the referral stuff there is. That is one of the opportunities and that's what I did early in my career, the reason that I'm as connected now as I am in our industry. In the very early days of it I said I'm going to make a point to get to know all of those digital people, right? Well, this was the early days of digital and there was like one digital person at each company and I think that's when you and I met 100%, and but it was just not not having a fear of rejection.

Speaker 2: 28:54

I think that is one of the absolute biggest things.

Speaker 1: 28:57

How do you think you didn't have a fear of rejection, like what? Do you think your brain was telling you that you were like I'm not going to fear this.

Speaker 2: 29:04

What's the consequence?

Speaker 2: 29:06

Hmm, like it's almost like how important is it so they reject me, so what, it's kind of what you're dealing with rejection all the time for my siblings, right you're like that birth order is really paying off now birth order was huge for me because, on one hand, my siblings were incredible to me and embraced me and we had that house where everyone was surrounded by people all the time, but it also it just gave me a I just I was never worried about the consequence of rejection by another human being and there's a lot of different places that came from within me and I certainly had advantage in it, in recognizing that early on. But like, even, like you know, when I was in junior high, the amount of girls that I called to ask out that I don't think any actually went out with me, but I still, I still. I was definitely a very, very late bloomer, but but I still was fearless in picking up the phone and making that call Right right?

Speaker 1: 30:14

Well, and I think what I'm connecting the dots so, danny, let me know if you agree for our listeners is that you didn't make the rejection about you. Right, you tried something. They could say yes, they could say no, but you didn't make it that you messed up or you were wrong or you were bad. You were just like OK, that's one less way it's going to happen. That person said no, I'm going to try it in a different way, and I think that's a really important takeaway for people to know to not make the rejection personal.

Speaker 2: 30:42

But not even using the word rejection.

Speaker 2: 30:44

I think vocabulary is huge.

Speaker 2: 30:47

I know I started this with using the word rejection but not looking at it as, especially not looking at things as a personal rejection.

Speaker 2: 30:57

And I think that's where a lot of people get caught up. And I have these moments still, some days where I have kind of heavy outreach days and then no one's getting back to me. I'm still just like come on and there's times where I still need that reinforcement and reward back and then all of a sudden the next day my inbox is completely clogged and I'm overwhelmed with the amount of responses, because sometimes things are. But in all seriousness, like there is this I think people get so caught up in that if somebody isn't a right fit, that for your product or even for you, that it's a personal rejection versus this just wasn't to connect, it's a to me looking at things even looking at as a lack of connection versus as a rejection okay, okay, um, I mean, I think that's again a really good takeaway for people to be setting sort of like the reframe on when you're making, can decide what you want to do with it and then apply potentially that information to the next conversation that you're having.

Speaker 1: 32:17

I think that's really important, switching gears a little bit. I do want to talk about an honor that your coworker and friend, sean Finnegan all of our mentors Sean Finnegan died in 2022. And you know just when we all got that news, just expressing enormous condolences to his family and to you as his partner. And I just want to know if you want to talk a little bit about Sean and what do you want people to remember most about him? The lens of the work that you've been doing.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Well, you know what's interesting about Sean? That one of the things that made me Sean for anybody who knew Sean knew that and we all knew Sean but he was all over the place and he was scattered and everything else. He definitely again had one of those intangible natural abilities to connect with people and was super likable and everything else, but he was similar, total extrovert, unafraid to reach out to people. I think the thing that people don't realize about Sean they realize without actually placing what it is was how uniquely present Sean was, even though he was scattered in all over the place.

Speaker 2: 33:41

You see him oh now Sean's at the White House Correspondents Dinner, Now he's in Cannes, Now he's at someone's family dinner, Now he's here, there and else. What I think people don't realize is the effort that it took behind the scenes to be at all of those places right, the glamour associated with Sean's life and there was a lot of glamour. It was actually funny when we lost Sean and I was looking at kind of photos and thinking about what to write and everything else. I'm like, holy shit, am I lucky to have had the amount of experiences that I had with him all over the world as well as in my own home and in his chicken coop at his house and I actually got to see that live, which was very exciting. I got to eat some of those eggs as well. There was a lot of eggs served at the Finnegan home.

Speaker 2: 34:40

Anyone on social knew that Sean had this chicken coop that he was very in love with and passionate about. But when I talk about him being present, everybody I talked to had stories with Sean. Sometimes it was a person that had met him once, but it had this experience with him and sometimes it was a legendary, crazy experience. Sometimes it was just a single conversation. There were some that got to travel and do these crazy spawning events and like and had dozens, if not hundreds, of experiences with him. But the commonality in that was whenever he was with somebody he was never looking over.

Speaker 1: 35:17

No, he wasn't. He wasn't. I completely agree. It was about a week maybe it was a week or two before he passed.

Speaker 1: 35:26

We were all at the TD Foundation annual gala and I remember we caught each other Because you know it's a huge room, everyone's like saying hi and catching up. Remember, we caught each other because you know it's a huge room, everyone's like saying hi and catching up, and we caught each other. He was leaving the restroom and I was like on my way in and he's like Julie, come on, let's go Like. And he was like I, you know, he was my boss's boss at one point, you know, and him, him, just in that moment, nobody else mattered, only I mattered. He knew about my career, knew what I was doing independently, was a huge fan of. It was like, you know, when I get back from travel, let's connect, there's people I want to introduce you to and it just is that moment where he had such a remarkable way of making you feel seen and that you mattered. And I think that all of us hearing that, understanding the impact that we can make on others in their lives, it's a small thing but it's an enormous thing.

Speaker 2: 36:16

But the enormous part, more than anything to me, was being present in that moment, and that's what I don't think people really understood about Sean was how uniquely present he was in those environments and and, and I've taken a lot from that and I really think about you know one. One of my biggest goals is always being present, and I wasn't always like that. That was, um, I was always someone had something else on my mind, or it was. I was not. I was never the person looking over someone's shoulder figuring out what I had to do, but I was certainly on the. What are all the other things that I need to be doing right now? And even in it's funny I still I still will create artificial environments for being present. Part of the reason I like traveling so much with my kids is, I know when I'm traveling, then I am so present and I'm not worried about doing anything else and the like. But I think presence to me is one of the absolute primary sort of areas of development goal for myself that I continue to work on.

Speaker 1: 37:22

Yeah, I love that. It's really, yeah, really really important staying present. Well, Danny, this was a treat and I really thank you for taking the time to talk to us and talk about your career and all that you've created, Also giving us a moment to honor Sean too. I really appreciate you being.

Speaker 2: 37:39

I really appreciate you bringing Sean up because he's still present with me. It's so funny the amount of times that people reach out to me or whatever. He's still Sean. We all knew him as like the great connector. He's still connecting me. There's still people every day that I meet. It turns out I met one point in Sean, or they knew or whatever else. So no, this, this was awesome.

Speaker 1: 38:01

It's so great to see you Good to see you too and to our listeners. Thanks for listening. If you have any questions, please email me at hello at jillgriffincoachingcom. We will get them to Danny. We will bring Danny back If you want to ask anything deeper about anything that he's doing around the room or the Chameleon Collective. Friends, I appreciate you being here and we will see you soon. Thanks so much.