Connection as Medicine: Breaking the Cycles of Workplace Isolation with Lucy Rose, Founder of The Cost of Loneliness Project

Loneliness is more than a feeling, it’s a public health crisis. In this episode, Jill talks with Lucy Rose about what leaders need to know, why connection drives performance, and how to spot and solve loneliness in today’s workplace.

• The hidden cost of loneliness
• Leadership’s role in fostering connection
• Small actions that build belonging

Show Guest

Lucy Rose is a foremost regulatory expert and Founder and President of The Cost of Loneliness Project. The Cost of Loneliness Project™ is a mission-driven organization advancing programs designed to increase awareness and understanding of chronic loneliness and create action that improves connection, mitigating this public health issue.  Leaders in the workplace are a key component to decreasing chronic loneliness and can foster belonging and connection amongst their teams.

Show Notes:

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Transcript

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Introduction to Lucy and The Cost of Loneliness Project

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey everyone , this is Jill Griffin , the host of the Career Refresh , and today I have a guest that I have wanted to interview for a while . I've been a fan of her work and we're going to talk about the bulk of her current work today . Lucy is the regulatory expert and the founder and president of the Cost of Loneliness Project . The Cost of Loneliness Project is a mission-driven organization advancing programs designed to increase awareness and the understanding of chronic loneliness and how we can create action that improves connection , mitigate public health issues and , ultimately , leaders in the workplace need to understand , not only for themselves but for their clients , the people they serve , their teams what is the impact of chronic loneliness . And with that I welcome Lucy , rose and thank you , jill , thanks for having me , thanks for being here .

Speaker 1 0:58

So let's , just before we jump into the juicy part around loneliness and the really . Working for the FDA , you've also worked for the top consulting organizations . You started it looks like way back and doing sales rep and farmer . You're also a physician's assistant . Tell us how you got through that and where you are today , cause I always find that so interesting and people understanding that career paths are not always linear and that they take lots of different shapes and sizes and create what we are today .

Speaker 2 1:27

You got that right . Mine has certainly not been linear , that's for sure . I'll do it real fast , but first I just have to give notice of the fact you said we're all leaders . I could not agree more . And for everybody listening as we talk about loneliness and about career paths and that kind of stuff , we all are and we all have opportunities every day to demonstrate that . So thank you .

Speaker 2 1:52

I started as a sales rep . I have an MBA , I'm a PA as well All kinds of weird things in terms of titles but bottom line is I have been involved in healthcare my whole career , be it as a sales rep or a sales manager . I was able to run the group at FDA that regulates all the advertising promotion of prescription drugs in the US . I went out and started , and I worked at Bristol Myers Squibb as well before , and was at Deloitte all kinds of things in between . I started my own business . I'm a regulatory expert for pharma , as you said , and had the privilege of working for about 400 clients over that time .

Speaker 2 2:20

During the time I did that , though , I traveled all the time , jill all the time , and as I traveled and I mean really all the time like I don't know , 8 million United Miles and a lot of stuff .

Speaker 2 2:32

As you think about travel , though for me , six days a week for over 20 years , it takes its toll .

Speaker 2 2:39

Sitting in the hotel room every night all the time I gained 40 pounds .

Speaker 2 2:43

I realized I was not making the friends that I need as a person who's one of connection , and it was taking its toll on me and I began to think again about public health and the 40,000 foot level . If it was impacting me that way , all that travel in the downtime , I wondered how it might be impacting others . So I started doing research , about nine years ago I guess , now to the impact of loneliness and realizing the power of the mind-body connection and what that means , and I decided at that point that , in addition to the work that I was able to do as a regulatory expert for public health , I really wanted to delve into this and see if I couldn't uncover a lot of this , make it more obvious to everybody about the connections and make an impact in our world at every level , from the individual to community to society , in terms of understanding the importance of this and how we must deal with it . I really believe it is the largest epidemic right now that we have , we have yeah , frankly , it's one we actually can prevent .

Speaker 2 3:46

Do something about .

Speaker 1 3:47

So let's

Lucy's Non-Linear Career Journey

Speaker 1 3:48

get a little bit clear for people listening what we're talking about . Right , most people are going to associate loneliness with social isolation , but you've defined it as something deeper . Do you want to give us you know ? So we have some of the vocabulary that we're all working off of around loneliness .

Speaker 2 4:03

I'd love to do that and social isolationism to say that real fast , five times quickly .

Speaker 2 4:12

Social isolationism and loneliness certainly can go hand in hand . They certainly do , and most recent research has shown that social isolationism also is highly impactful in a negative way on people , in addition to loneliness , but as I am defining loneliness today , I'm talking about chronic loneliness , that loneliness that you feel when you're you know you're missing something in terms of your connections , that you need more of physical impacts that that makes on you , and I think the easiest way to think about this is think about fright and flight . When you see something you're afraid of , your body , as you know , your heart starts beating faster and you start sweating and your breathing is faster in order to handle something that you know is dangerous to you . It's a cortisol release primarily , but other epinephrine is also released in your body . That cortisol release is great if you're in real danger , because you can come faster , and come faster when it is present all the time .

Speaker 2 5:05

Though , when that chronic stress from chronic loneliness is there all the time , bathing yourselves in that , it also causes inflammation , inflammation , and all of those things coming together over time can cause physical changes in your body , including a 26% increase in mortality . Oh wow , body , yeah , including a 26% increase in mortality . Oh wow , stroke and cardiovascular disease major increase in cardiovascular disease about a 32% increase in stroke and a 27% increase in cardiovascular disease .

Speaker 1 5:37

So , lucy , I want to make that clear for listeners to really understand and breaking that down and for any of my longtime listeners . You know that I talk about stress and I talk about fight or flight and what actually happens . We have an expert here . But we've talked about how when you're under stress , right , there's the stressor , the external thing that's happening , and the stress your body is going to deal with . The stressor oh , you know , there's a presentation coming up , there's a delayed flight , there's an argument with a friend or family member , that stress you're going to deal with that . Your mind and your brain is going to know how to communicate . But I want Lucy to take us through what happens actually to the body and the secondary system shutting down , because I think when we really understand that , we start to think twice about how important is this and how do I want to approach and be intentional , moving forward .

Speaker 2 6:27

Yeah , and I think you're just . You're really onto something and all of us have felt it . You actually named three things there , like like we got a big speech coming up and for your audience . That happens to them all the time and it is something that most people are actually afraid of . And so when you do think about your body and how it feels in that moment , you know your your heartbeats faster . You can feel it , sometimes in your chest , you're breathing quicker . You sometimes get sweaty palms . You know your knees get weak .

Speaker 2 6:54

All of that is a natural reaction to stress . It's a good thing Most of the time because it's giving our body a warning oh my gosh , something's wrong and we're going to help you take care of it , or I'm going to help you take care of it , because that's what it does . That's a great thing . Until it lasts in a chronic way , and as you last in a chronic way through that and you have more cortisol , what we and more of the physical reactions to this stress over a long time , a chronic loneliness , which can happen again when you're not getting , you know , if you don't have a single best friend , no one that you share with , no one that you feel

Understanding Chronic Loneliness and Its Physical Impact

Speaker 2 7:32

really safe around . Sometimes it has to do with purpose .

Speaker 2 7:35

There are a lot of things there that can cause you to feel like you don't have what you need . When that happens chronically , okay , then all of those things come together and we do a couple of things . Sometimes we try to soothe that behavior and it can lead to things like alcoholism , other kinds of addiction . Okay , sometimes that soothing is overeating and it can lead to obesity , which takes us to some of our issues with type 2 diabetes epidemic now , as you know , and other issues with overweight . But the fact is , it also causes inflammation and when we look at that inflammation , some of the data is telling us now that it might increase the chances of dementia up to 50% . Now , again , all these numbers that I'm sharing today , if you read different sources , if you read Cigna , if you read Harvard Business Review any of these , they're going to gallop holes .

Speaker 1 8:27

Give you a variation on the data .

Speaker 2 8:30

But it's that mind-body connection over time that is scary for all of us . Again , you know , when you look at cardiovascular disease being increased by 29% , stroke by 32% , more cancer due to this . And we can relate that to dollars at work because loss of productivity I actually wrote it down so I wouldn't get it wrong the loss of productivity in extra medicine spending let's go there for Medicare $6.7 billion a year . The loss of productivity in workplace is monstrous for apathyism , for healthcare costs , all those things . A lot happens .

Speaker 1 9:10

What I'm hearing you say as takeaways for our listeners is one as an individual , you should care because while the stress at some times will help you perform , it's also going to suppress all your secondary systems . What do we mean by that ? Your digestive system , your reproductive system right , you have a stomach ache , right ? That's what we're talking about . Those other systems tend to start to slow down because we're always in the stress which our body is saying perform , perform , perform or fight , right , that's the fight or flight . So thinking about your sleep disrupted all of that . So now , when you're not in that stressor experience and you're out of it , well , if we don't restart our systems and that's what you're talking about in the mind-body connection our bodies can handle the stress as long as we're balancing the mind-body part of it .

Speaker 1 9:56

So when we layer on that and understanding loneliness I mean you and I were talking just before the US Surgeon General Murthy , right , that quote that she gave around chronic loneliness being as harmful as smoking 15 cigarettes a day . I mean that's staggering . I know you've seen this in your work firsthand . If we bring it back into the workplace , should leaders be solving for this loneliness issue or is it something that's in the private of your . Oh , let's let . Oh , you've just opened like a thousand doors . I know I'm asking you a lot of questions , but my brain's always making connections .

Speaker 2 10:36

You're on and connections are the right word . First , I want to make sure that I give that quote to the right place . The person who did the work on the 15 cigarettes a day was Julianne Holt Lunsford , who is one of the leading researchers in loneliness and connections out of Salt Lake City and she's an academician did the work and she showed that all-cause mortality is increased by up to 26% . Guys no joke from loneliness , folks who are chronically lonely . And Dr Murdy was , you know , in his a lot of work and all of his kind of presentations and work he quotes that a lot that source . So you see it a lot . But it was Julianne who actually did the research to discover that .

Speaker 2 11:18

Now to answer your question , should we be concerned as business leaders or whatever world you're in , nonprofit , whatever that may be ? Yes , we should , because let me give you some things that actually happen when people are chronically lonely in the workplace . Things like absenteeism increases the quality of the work that they produce decrease . Their ability to collaborate as teammates decreases . Their creativity is somewhat stifled because they lose their energy and excitement around things . Your health costs go up .

Speaker 2 11:52

We're doing that in terms of the costs that we do and we have to backfill , we end up losing more people because when they're lonely and when they're uncomfortable and they're not performing as well as they might want to , or they don't feel seen , which is what a lot of this is . You know a lot of people . If you don't feel seen or don't feel included or a part of then , that drives loneliness . So it is our responsibility I think , from both a caring human , empath type standpoint , but also from a purely business dollar standpoint truth be told that as leaders , we pay attention to this and that we create a culture , in essence , of attention to this , a culture of connection , a culture of belonging

Loneliness in the Workplace: Leaders' Responsibility

Speaker 2 12:36

and as part of what we do as leaders , individually and as corporate .

Speaker 1 12:41

So people who are listening to this are probably saying , like , this sounds like a great idea . I love this idea , but , jill , do you know what's on my plate right now ? Lucy , how am I going to do this ? I have to . You know , I have the presentation , I have numbers to deliver , I have all these like how can I possibly take this on too ?

Speaker 2 12:58

Okay , it's a lot easier than you think . Okay , okay , and the numbers to deliver depend on this to a great extent , and I think that is a really important thing . This is not an either or . It's a both and Okay .

Speaker 2 13:12

And for us to be able to be as effective in our results as we wanna be , then we have to pay attention to each person and their contributions , as well as the collective and how we work as teams . So as we do that , what can we do ? First thing , I think , as leader managers , I think we can normalize a conversation around what it means to be connected and what it means to be a part of a team , so we can talk about also well-being and what that means , not just physically have you gone to the gym this week ? But asking open-ended questions like how are you feeling as part of the team ? Do you feel like things are going well ? Is there anything we can do there ? I think we can pay more attention with intentionality about celebrating contributions , about paying attention to the quiet person at the meeting . Why are they being quiet ? None of this takes any time or money . It's just paying attention in a meeting , right ? Why is that person not contributing ?

Speaker 1 14:09

I love that you say that , because I feel like going back to everybody is a leader . There's maybe the person at the top of the hierarchy , but as humans , if you're on that Zoom call or you're in that meeting and there's either someone who either isn't participating getting curious as to why or does , every time they try to talk , someone accidentally steps on them and steps over them and they're being interrupted , and I think one of the easiest things you can do as a compassionate leader is to be like oh wait , hey wait , lucy , did you want to say something here ? And like offering the person a stage and helping them get in there . The more that happens , the more I believe they're going to be able to find the way to work within some of the nuances of a complex workplace .

Speaker 2 14:52

I'm right there with you , yeah , and I think there's so much value here in doing that , because clearly our real goal is to prevent loneliness in the workplace . If we can , what can we do in the virtual world in which we live today , where so many fewer people are actually there ? What can we also do online to try to do that and either to identify folks who might be at risk or to provide opportunities for them online ? Might we have virtual coffee hours as an example , where folks come in and out of a Zoom call meeting one another . Might we encourage gently , but encourage more folks to turn their cameras on so they can see each other and somehow connect when they're doing this , because it's so easy not to do that .

Speaker 1 15:44

Yeah , it's a big one that I'm still surprised . You know , when I work with small business and large corporations , I'm still surprised when I'll get on a meeting that it's I mean , I don't have numbers , but I'm going to say somewhere between 10 and 25% will still have their cameras off , and I get it right . There's reasons for that and we support you if that's what's going to best serve you . But you build connection when you're able to see people in addition to speaking , so we can still work with it if there's a reason why you can't have your camera on . But that opening that up I think is , you know , in back to back Zoom meetings and Slack check-ins , like how leaders can find opportunities for building that connection without killing productivity . I love that you're saying offering like virtual coffee hours . Are there other things that you're suggesting that they do ?

Speaker 2 16:26

Yeah , I think you know we often I'm going to say we . I think it is not uncommon for folks to kind of brush off that critical one-on-one conversation that we have with our folks . We're busy . We just don't have time this week , that's what goes away . It is critically important to take the time to build those relationships , both from productivity , okay , as well as from helping your person , your employee , whomever that is your colleague feel comfortable and feel like they're part of a team . And that is where you build the trust that we need for folks to also be able to share .

Speaker 2 17:01

I don't think I'm doing too well on this team . What might I do ? Or to have that opportunity to ask that deeper question . You know I'm constantly asked well , how do we recognize loneliness in our employees ? What do we look for anyway ? What are those kinds of things ? Well , it's

Recognizing Signs of Loneliness in Employees

Speaker 2 17:15

important to look for that person who is not sharing , who may have used to be sharing and now they've kind of withdrawn . They have reduced participation in things . They might have changes in the quality of their work . You might notice they're somewhat anxious now . They're moving their hands in ways they didn't before . They're less expressive than they used to be Delayed . You asked for something on Friday and they don't give it to you till Tuesday . Okay , know what I mean . So things that are their engagement is less . They're not turning on their video when they used to why not as we begin to notice things or as somebody is different than the norm in any way ? That's the person we want to ask even more questions of . We want to make sure that they feel comfortable and pay attention to them .

Speaker 1 18:07

So , lucy , I love again that you just gave seven signs I counted as you were speaking seven signs of what a manager can do to spot some of that chronic loneliness in their team . So my follow-up question to that is how do you suggest they walk the line between empathy but not overstepping ?

Speaker 2 18:28

Yeah , and I think that's a really tough question to ask , and I think you know so much of this is building that trust and is also the leader saying I'm going to be vulnerable , I'm going to share personal stories ? I'm going to say as I would tell you , jill , we already did when we first started talking that we are willing to be vulnerable and tell our stories , that we're willing to share real stories of connection and model the behavior we're talking about , which also helps to build trust . But you don't want to go too far , you want to be thoughtful . Just as an example , when I said I would love to have everybody turn their cameras on , there really are some people for whom that truly is not comfortable . I'm not going to push that person , of course . Of course I'm going to try to figure out where they are by building trust with them so that they feel comfortable enough telling me where their boundaries are .

Speaker 2 19:20

I think you know it is a fine line to some degree , but if we truly are successful in creating a culture of connection and care about each other and safety and comfort , then I think a lot of this will end up working its way out . That does not mean to me . I mean as an example . I am a hugger . I mean like really , if we were together , I would take a hug for you .

Speaker 1 19:44

I'm all down with that , but I would have asked you first , sure if it was okay .

Speaker 2 19:49

You know , I think that is that important , and there are boundaries that we need to think about as we do this . Not everybody is awkward and they feel uncomfortable if I were to do that to them , in spite of me smiling and acting like I really care about you , because I do . But I think we have to be sensitive to those boundaries , we have to pay attention , and yet we cannot be afraid to establish a culture of connection . That is really important to do for everyone's sake , for success of the business as well . Yeah .

Speaker 1 20:20

So one of the things that's coming up to you , as you're saying , culture of connection and I don't know if you know Scott Galloway . He's a co-host of the Pivot podcast . He also is an NYU professor and he's written a couple of books , and one of the books that he's working on now I believe it comes out this fall is about sort of and I'm not on the inside track , I'm just telling you what I read in the public . You know , the public discourse is that he's writing a book on men and men and loneliness . And then we know that men are experiencing chronic , rising levels of loneliness , particularly amongst younger and middle aged .

Speaker 1 20:58

There was a stat that I read as I was preparing to meet with you that one in three men , or close to 30% , report having no close friend , which is a 5x increase just in the last 20 years . And then Professor Garley also talks about that . There's like a friendship recession , which means like there's declining male community engagement . You know , we know this as a result of COVID . There's like less third spaces , right ? So if we're not going to the

Men and Loneliness: The Friendship Recession

Speaker 1 21:29

office , we're not going to the mosque , the church , the synagogue , the Lions Club , the VFW halls , the Lions Club , the VFW halls , like if we're not meeting in those other spaces the gym then do you have any thoughts and I know I'm kind of putting you on the spot here , but do you have any thoughts of ways that we can support men in ways that feel aligned to what their needs might be as they're experiencing loneliness ?

Speaker 2 21:55

I'm going to put that on hold just one second , if that's okay . Absolutely , I think what you've touched on is just so critically important that you know we have certain things in our brains that we've kind of set , that are assumptions that may or may not be correct , you know , and as we think about loneliness , one of them and I really promise I'll get back to your question , but one of them gets to and I have three kind of misunderstandings . I think we think of ages and this is really important , and what you often envision in Lonely is that little old lady , I hate to say , because that's me sitting in a windowsill , being silhouetted , seeming lonely , and oh my gosh , guess what . They're not . Most of them aren't . The number one area demographic for loneliness people between the ages of 18 and 34 . And I think that is critical for your audience because so many of us , especially as we're growing through , growing , you know , in our responsibility levels and things in the workplace , are that age or are leaning folks that age . So they , we have to pay very close attention to them . Another one is the , that , that power , the mind body connection . And the last one is we can be lonely even in a group . A lot of people are together and we're having a grand time . You're sitting there at Thanksgiving with your family going this should be the best , most exciting time of my life and you're lonely as you can be because you feel different or othered or whatever it may be . And New York City lonely place lots of people . So , as we think about men , is where I'm going with this . So there was a reason for that .

Speaker 2 23:32

As we think about men , I think often people think and this country was founded on we are runged individuals . Put yourself up by the bootstraps , you don't need anybody else . Yeah , we do . Yes , desperately do . And women have traditionally as we have thought about the role of women way historically have been more social , have been in groups while men went out to hunt by themselves . Go way back there . So they do need this as well . There is no gender . Men don't need it , women do , right , right .

Speaker 1 24:03

And I think that's the point that I'm trying to make . Like , women may talk about it more men , it may be more invisible or more stigmatized in men , but I just want us . You know I'm curious and I know we don't have the research , but I'm curious . When you mentioned that age of 18 to 34 , the role that social media plays , I know just for myself . If I start , if I look at social media before noon , I don't feel great , either because of something it's telling me about what's going on in the world or there's something that's like setting off a compare and despair , and I don't want to start my morning or my day with the whole world in my head . I want to start my day . I choose prayer and meditation , I choose a practice . I want to start my day fortifying myself , taking my version of medicine and my vitamins before I then go out into the world . And I just wonder the role , if you have any thoughts on the role that social media might be playing here .

Social Media, Workplace Culture, and Connection

Speaker 2 25:01

Certainly it is , there's no question about that as is , again , the workplace not coming back into the workplace , as is what you mentioned earlier about us not being a part of clubs as much as we were , or churches as much as we were , or any of those things . Anytime we take away a social connection or place for that and that has happened , especially with men , I think you're absolutely correct . That's really hard or anytime we give a substitute . You know , the thing about social media is it can be wonderful . Right now , we're using the power of it to try to get this message out .

Speaker 2 25:33

You see it in families all the time , where folks are connecting in meaningful ways that otherwise could not , and it means something where folks are connecting in meaningful ways that otherwise could not , and it means something . Where we find , though , that it does cause issues , clearly , is when people are doing that as a substitute for real-life connections , because it can't possibly solve the same issue as a good hug from somebody that you care about usually provides . It's also very difficult to build those initial relationships that way . It's a help to maintain one that you've already built . It's difficult to build something that's meaningful and authentic this way , you know . So , yeah , it has had an impact , and all the false friends and also all of the , the FOMA , you know , fear of being left out and all that stuff is very real because so much of this loneliness comes from again feeling like you don't belong or aren't seen or heard Right , and that it just in droves drives that through social media , as we know .

Speaker 1 26:30

Yeah , and I was just talking with a group of professional women who were they were a mixture of married or coupled up , but maybe not necessarily having children or having children yet . And I think , also remembering that whether it's by choice or by medical reasons , there's a whole group of people that want to be included and maybe they can't share the same story , but there's another way of bringing them into the conversation . I think it's really important that we do have employee resource groups for moms , but I also think it's important to make sure that we don't other . You know , and that was basically the takeaway it was about 50 women in this group that were talking about and saying like that they don't feel that there's a place for them in the workplace because they're not a man and they're not a mom . They're a contributor and creating value , and I thought that was a really interesting take on other ways that we other people or people can feel lonely .

Speaker 2 27:35

There's so many ways to do that and that's why , to me , I'm big in culture and create culture in the workplace , and , to me , when the whole culture is about . In fact , I was just reading something today and I'll just share with you that a company could kind of use to be thoughtful about . This isn't a nice to have , it's an essential when we feel seen , valued and included . We do our best work . Let's keep building a culture where everyone belongs . That's not stovepiping individuals saying you're different , you're other , therefore you're important , it's we're all important , and that you know when it's walking again that fine line .

Speaker 2 28:18

How do we see everyone ? How do we also identify and prevent these issues ? Because some people are setups . You know , once you're a new mom , we know you might have issues if you just relocated , okay , how do we deal with that ? If someone's just graduated from college and has left their whole support system behind , we can identify them as potentially at risk . A person who's just gotten a divorce ? Yes , how do we support them ? We have great support systems in place for grieving and for support when we lose someone , when someone dies . We don't have good support systems in place when we lose people in other ways . We lose our friends when we move , yeah , when we leave college , when we have a child , and suddenly we can't go out anymore with our friends in the evening because we're busy .

Speaker 1 29:07

Yeah , other priorities , right , okay , so we've talked about the numbers and the impact financially and productivity . So that's for the leaders and the business owners and the people who are the money honeys , right , we've talked about it that way . We've also then talked about your various signs Again , I counted seven that you gave the examples on what leaders at all levels can do to spot the loneliness . We talked about how , finding ways to be inclusive . I would love , just as we start to wrap , like what anybody who's listening today what they can do , especially if they don't control the purse , they don't control the bank

Building a Culture of Inclusion and Belonging

Speaker 1 29:45

or the money impact of things . What can they do ? Today ? They spot somebody on their team that they're like , hmm , that kind of fits that description or you know they've been a little quiet lately . What would you say someone does right today to create a culture of inclusion , quiet lately .

Speaker 2 30:03

What would you say someone does right today to create a culture of inclusion ? Okay , you asked several questions there . One was about an individual , one was about creating a culture . There are , you know , if there is an individual that you see that you wonder . You know , approaching them is the right thing . We have to de-stigmatize this and one way to do it , of course , is to create that culture . So everybody's a part of connection is valued and is critical in this culture and we understand that .

Speaker 2 30:27

Once you've done that , then the actual discussions come naturally , because I , as your leader , I'm going to already be talking about that and I'm going to see it and I'm going to say to a person that I identify some of these signs in . You know how things go on for you . You know how do you feel as a team . How's work going ? You know , is there anything you need ?

Speaker 2 30:47

We can also do surveys , of course , where we actually are looking at workplace culture and we're trying to find out how do you feel valued ? Do you feel seen ? How do you feel as a team member ? What does that look like for you ? So there are ways . As a leader , manager , I can talk to someone , I can call them , I can stop by their desk , I can see them . You know , we can of course reward connections that we see so that everybody sees that's part of a culture . But I can stop by the desk and say you know what ? You've been a little bit quiet recently . Is everything okay ? Is anything we can do to be more supportive ? But it is identifying it , recognizing it , showing you care . There are clearly tons of ways to do this .

Speaker 1 31:28

I love the part that you touched on because it's something I deploy when I work with companies and small businesses regularly is the we'll call it an employee engagement survey . But it's like three questions and just touching base and then asking it regularly . This is not a once a year and then come away . Maybe it's monthly . Maybe you know if you're asking two quick radio button . Yes , no scale of one to 10 kind of questions . It takes two or three minutes for somebody to answer that , but it also will help you get a pulse on what's going on . I always say there's culture and there's climate . If your culture is strong , you can withstand a climate change which might be a shift in business . You know one new business lost new business , new hires , mergers , acquisitions . You can withstand . If your culture is strong , you can withstand the climate that you're in . How can people work .

Speaker 2 32:17

It builds resilience , doesn't it ? Yeah , absolutely , connection builds resilience because it builds confidence . It builds trust and , as you're , I mean connection is about trust anyway , isn't it ? And as you're building that trust , you can identify and deal with change in so much of a better way . So , yeah , I'm sorry you were asking .

Speaker 1 32:36

I was going to ask you . I'm going to put all of your information in the show notes how they can read about you personally and the cost of loneliness project . But how do ?

Speaker 2 32:46

people work with you . How do people work with me ? They can find me on my website . The cost of loneliness Okay , That'll be the best way . And again , I would love to speak anywhere anytime on this topic . For anybody who's interested and work with folks in their organizations , wherever it may be , reach out , and I would be delighted to talk with you about any of these things .

Speaker 1 33:07

Okay , I will put make sure that all of your information is in the show notes and , if you have questions , I'm looking at Lucy and , knowing that I know she will come back , she will answer those questions .

Speaker 2 33:18

I definitely will do everything I can . I will for sure be back . I really do believe that this whole concept is about prevention . It's identifying , it's identifying possibilities , it's creating culture , because connection , you know we can say connection is medicine , and I think it is . But prevention isn't even better medicine because you really don't need it at that point .

Speaker 1 33:40

Thank you , thank you . That's a beautiful place to end , so if you have questions or feedback , email us at hello at jillgriffincoachingcom and , as always , always be intentional and please be kind to each other . All right , thank you , lucy , for being here and we'll see you soon . Bye , thank you , bye .