When Competence Becomes a Cage: Why High Performers Get Stuck with Dina Scippa

This week, Dina Scippa, founder of Enough Labs and leadership coach to senior directors and VPs inside complex global organizations joins Jill Griffin to break down the invisible patterns that stall high performers right before the leap.

Dina Scippa has spent 20+ years working with women leaders across 30+ countries. She sits at the intersection of executive coaching and identity recalibration — helping high achievers turn competence into real influence.

What we're getting into:

• Why high performers plateau
• The identity shift from doer to decision-maker that changes their trajectory
• Language moves that signal executive readiness before you have the title

Transcript

Welcome And What To Listen For

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Hey there, I am Jill Griffin, the host of the Career Refresh, and this week I have a treat. I am here with Dina Skippa, the founder of Enough Labs. She is a leadership coach to senior directors and VPs inside complex global organizations. And she joins us here today to break down the invisible patterns, which we all know are there, but we can't actually name them, that stall high performers right before they're about to like get into that next level. So I am bringing her on to have a robust conversation. Um, I know there's a lot here that you are going to want to take away. So get that notes app ready. If you're a pen and paper person, get that ready because Dina is going to be dropping some insights and things that you can implement this week. So let's dig in and welcome Dina to the show.

Dina’s Career And Enough Labs

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Nice to have you here. Thank you, Jill, so much. It's such an honor. I'm such a fan. I love having these types of conversations. So thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Why don't you start with giving everybody you've got this amazing 20-plus year background? Why don't you give people a little bit more of your background so they can understand the excellence that is sitting with them today?

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I so appreciate that. So, yeah, about 20 years in international development work, specifically in the space of gender equality and women's empowerment. Um, I was right in the mix of leading major USAID initiatives and USAID, US Agency for International Development. Yes. That agency. Yes. Okay. Um incredible career doing honestly such incredibly important work that came to a screeching halt in January of 2025. Um I have worked with organizations across my career helping communities, projects, stakeholder partners understand the invisible barriers that hold women and girls back and also other big marginalized groups. Taking that work, I really saw front and center with conversations with hundreds of women and girls around the world, understanding what I felt really is a leadership design problem, an issue with confidence. And I was seeing it in every sector, in every role. And I said, I have to do something about this because I consistently saw brilliant leaders getting stuck, getting stuck inside of a cycle of proving instead of deciding. And my work really focuses on how to communicate with clarity, with authority, with making decisions a little bit faster and building on those behaviors that move teams and businesses forward. Because really, we're in a moment where we need real authentic leadership. Yes, taking shape.

The Overloaded High Performer Pattern

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yes, yes, no doubt. Okay, so let's start to get a little bit like tactical with it, right? So if you're working with leaders at a high level who are stuck, what does this actually look like from the inside? I want people to be like, oh, that's me, that's not me, and start to self-identify.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah. And I I've seen this so often in my clients and in the work that I'm doing with organizations. It looks like you're still the most reliable person in the room, but often the most overloaded. You're being pulled into how things get done instead of shaping what gets done. I think the telltale sign is when your calendar is full of doing and not deciding. It's the calendar that looks completely blocked in every single hour of every day, no breaks. Right. And double blocked, triple blocked, then you have to choose and dip into one and the next. Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

It's the mandatory meeting that you have to be in, but no one busy searched your calendar. So they're sort of like, that's on you. Gotta figure out which one you're going to.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Uh-huh. Absolutely. And perfect segue. You're praised as being so helpful and so responsive. Huge red flag. That's not leadership language. So I say to people, if your value and the way that you're relating to it is still tied to how much you produce, you're still really operating below your level, even if your title says otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

You are singing my song. This is what I talk a lot about. And it's such a challenge because what we find is what got you here, what got you to that role, is actually being that doer and that achiever and getting it done. But then at a certain point, if you don't figure out how to let go of what you were doing, it really um make sure that you're nurturing your team or your peers or however your organization is set up so that they're doing different work, so that you're doing what you've actually gotten promoted for. You're now stuck in these two places where you're at capacity. And that's a recipe for burnout.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

It's a recipe for burnout. Yeah. And see, I always found, and I saw this in my own leadership journey. It took me a while to get to that senior leadership role. And execution always gets rewarded early. And I say this a lot because it does get cycled into a lot of leaders who are women who have had that type of behavior be rewarded. But at senior levels, over execution becomes a liability. Yes.

When Strengths Become Your Blind Spot

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And then you add in overfunctioning, again, being at capacity, uh high sense of responsibility. You're the person who is going to make sure we get it done because that's your brand. Your brand is like, I'm not going to leave crummy work or I'm not going to leave my colleague, you know, struggling at four o'clock on a Friday and be like, peace out. I'm leaving, you know, you're not going to do that. So your brand and what makes you really likable, like you are well valued within the organization. However, your influence is not there. So this is where, you know, you're you're talking about is like the strengths might be stalling. So let's name some of the strengths that are now actually becoming the blind spot.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

A thousand percent. I love this question. So you becoming known for the one who handles it, I think shows up as someone who is deadline driven, who produces quality work, who is willing to put in those long hours to get it done when something has been thrown on your plate last minute. It really comes down to that proving energy. Let me show you how I can handle this. I'll just take that on. I'm a I'm a team player. I just want to make sure that we get this absolutely perfect before we share it. These are strengths, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, they are absolutely holding you back from being positioned as the leader. And what do they do instead? Yeah, I mean, this is the question I'm constantly having with clients, and really it's so necessary. But I would say think about how you're positioning yourself as a leader. Instead of let me show you how I can handle this, how about saying, here's how I see the decision that needs to be made? Or instead of I'll take that on, recognize that this is the risk that we need to account for and delegate it to someone else. Because oftentimes you're proving that you need to earn your seat when you've already been placed there. You have to ask yourself, if there's a practical shift instead of jumping in to solve all the time, because let's be honest, there are a lot of high-performing leaders out there who are just simply so uncomfortable with things being messy, things not being complete. So ask yourself what decision needs to be made here? And then how can you sort of course correct without taking it on? Because leaders hold the room when a decision needs to be made. They don't have to jump in and solve. But I think the critical piece here is that oftentimes leaders think that it's a negative reflection on them as a leader, as an individual, if something isn't done to their standard.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

How do you think structural um and gender bias? And for our listeners, structural bias, I just mean there are certain structures that are visible and invisible within organizations. And we're we're both sitting in the US right now, so we are talking slightly US-centric. Your own market may have slightly different ways in which structural biases show up, but they're everywhere. And then there's the obvious gender bias, where we often do, I mean, we've all heard the story, it maybe has even happened to us, where we look at someone who tends to be the most junior or the most uh female representing person in the room, and we say, like, hey, you know, can you order lunch for the team or can you get the coffee? Or this place is a mess in here. Can you straighten it up before the meeting? And then suddenly they're like, No, I'm the executive vice president. I just happen to have no wrinkles yet and a young face.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

I mean, there is a very invisible tax that every woman knows. And I know that we're talking sort of in the US centric uh lens, but letting go of this belief of the one who always delivers can feel like losing your edge. And that has everything to do with some seminal research that really was the motivating factor for why I created enough labs. There is actual research that documents a confidence cliff, is what they call it. And the cliff that girls fall over starting at age nine. So their confidence starts to peak truly at age nine. And from ages 10 to 13, that confidence drops by 30%. And then between the ages of 13 to 17, it actually drops another 60%. Now, of course, we can't account for all of these different nuances, but there was a seminal study that was put together on this. And that same conditioning that starts, where we are looking for belonging, looking for acceptance, looking to not be perceived as someone who is failing, who's not doing well, who can't be relied on, who isn't seen as collaborative, all of these messaging, all of these messages that start early frame our conditioning. And girls learn early to be liked and helpful.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Even before they're ever taught to lead or shown these leadership qualities that are so essential. And so I offer this theory that I think the confidence cliff that's happening in adolescence for young girls is actually following us right into the workplace.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Or a new level of it, right? Because you're going through various cycles, or if you're on a return ship, if you're more uh seasoned or more um experienced worker, it's happening to you again. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah. So the gender barriers I think are impossible to ignore. They need to be called out. But I also think it's so incredibly difficult to try to shoulder that alone, which is why I think conversations like this really do need to be brought into the workplace. Because I can often, I can honestly tell you that even in doing 360 leadership assessments with leaders, the way that men have related to these topics is totally different than how women relate to the topics. It's like this invisible conversation. And I'm like, we don't even know what each other is holding in hand.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I just I want to tell you something that I saw really funny. So this morning I was, you know, doing my scroll across LinkedIn and it was a clip of Taylor Swift when she was, I'm gonna say 15 to 17 years old. And she's being interviewed off camera. It's a male voice, um, definitely Nashville bass music industry. And he says to her in in sort of admiration, like, oh, you play both a six-string and a 12-string guitar. And her answer is basically like, well, my instructor told me I couldn't because my hands were too small. So I decided to go learn how to do it. So again, not asking for it uh permission, just decides I'm gonna go prove you wrong. And then, my friends, the comments. The comments all saying it's not really that hard to play a 12-string guitar. No, no, no, hold on, people. She's she's being interviewed between 15 and 17 years old, telling you about when she was 10 years old as a female that would have statistically a much smaller hand at 10 years old. Where so what we had in that exact, again, structural and gender bias, we had a situation in which mature individuals are looking at that who are, I'm gonna guess, over 30, maybe in their 40s, going, it's not that hard to play a 12-string guitar. Okay, she's 10.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

And I love how Taylor Swift in that moment didn't feel the need to overexplain. No, she just like actually told me I couldn't, and I decided to jump in. And that's an that's a perfect example of executive language patterns that I don't think give themselves permission to do enough. Shorter sentences, fewer qualifiers, more direction, less explanation. But I love that example. And I think that when we think of our leadership just as that incredible anecdote about Taylor Swift, is that you need to get anchored as a leader to really get clear why am I sharing the perspective or the decision in this moment that I am? Am I doing it for me because I know it's the right move, or am I trying to gain likability in this moment from peers? And I know that there's nuance and a ton of you know range in terms of situations and circumstances. However, you really have to ask yourself if you're moving through your workplace or through your team, looking to get liked by for your decision making, it's gonna be a huge drawback. It's gonna, it's gonna set you back. And it's really not gonna let you move to that next level. Right, right.

Strategic Thinking Versus Constant Execution

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Yeah. Which is also making me think about um Kate Mann's work, Down Girl, where she talks about the difference between the human giver and the human being. And I I've actually done my own IP off of that, and that it's the human doer, right? So you are the human giver or your human doer, and they're they're they're they both lead to burnout. There's brilliant in both of them, there's absolutely burnout. But this idea that um very often gender normative women are appreciated for being likable and amenable and just get it done and smile and do it. And like, great, if that's your brand and you want to do all that, awesome. But doing it because it's performative or because you think you have to is what we're talking about. We're not telling anybody to not be who they are. We're telling you to think, is that who you are? Or is it who you've been suggested you should be? And I think that's the difference. I want to go back to something you said earlier around um, you know, uh the strategic thinking part of the challenge versus the delivering, because I don't want people to walk away with, wait, so I'm not gonna deliver now. I'm in trouble. Now I'm failing. So like unpack that a little bit more for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah, I love it. Because I think there's a critical difference between strategic level thinking, thinking, positioning versus execution and delivery. So per I the best way I can sort of answer this question is perhaps with an anecdote of a former client. Yeah. So was working with a senior VP, she'd been with the company for over 15 years and had excelled into echelons of senior leadership because she was able to deliver at high levels. She had recently hired someone who had done a role for a client, it was a government contractor, um, for a role that she had already done 15, you know, 10, 15 years ago, but the person wasn't performing at the level that they needed to. And she said to me, verbatim, it's just easier if I take on their work. Oh yeah. They're struggling. There's no way it's just faster for me to do it. I value the relationship that we have with the client. Things are really touchy right now. I'm just gonna take it on. But her taking it on meant doing her executive VP role from eight to six, ostensibly, and then going home, being with her family, feeding kids, putting them to bed, and then the second shift began from eight to midnight, right? And taking on extra work. So I I use this example and I reference it often because there's this mentality that in order to get it done, that you have to do it, and that there's just no one else that can do it. And that assumption that need your create action to always do it sort of trains and conditions the people around you to do it.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Well, it's a learned it becomes a learned helplessness, right? Or, you know what, I only have to really do this work 65% because Jill's gonna clean it up. Jill's gonna bring it from okay to excellent, and then you know.

Ageism Cuts And The Leadership Pipeline

SPEAKER_00 16:56

And I don't really need to challenge myself to really build, and I think it actually has huge repercussions in any workplace because you're really not cultivating a leadership pipeline, you're not helping people develop agency and accountability and build their skill set because they know that there's sort of a panic button. Right. Or you're also conditioning people to feel like none, nothing that they ever do is really that is good enough. And so it really creates this tension, whether it's visible or invisible, to say, well, I'm just gonna do it to the best ability that I really know I want to in this moment, because you're just gonna go in and do it in the way that you want to. And it just creates some friction in the team. It creates that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

And I think also in our current economic environment with our level of unemployment, what's happening very often is wisdom has left the building because traditionally they're more expensive. And if you need to make cuts quick, we're gonna cut someone. Yes, ageism, but we're gonna cut someone. Ageism starts at age 43 now. That's what the data is showing us. London School of Economics did study in the last couple of years and saying that it's it's for profound starting at age 43. Um, and then you add that on to maybe being more expensive. So it's easier to cut that. And when you think about this scenario, so if I'm overfunctioning and therefore doing more than my job and bleeding into the person on my team that should be doing their job, but now because I'm more expensive, we need to make cuts, that's now been cut. Now we have the junior staff stretching up. And look, that's what happens, right? They need to stretch into those roles. But if we haven't created a leadership pipeline, and as an organization, we're not thinking through the impact of what we're doing to our leaders and the pressures that we're putting on them, then all of a sudden we have the next, the next cohort of people who are like, you're up, and they are executionally strong, but they're not strategically strong. And here we go again. And that's what continues to happen. Yes. I see it in the work I do both at the corporate level and individual. I see it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Yeah. I mean, you and I are just speaking each other's so clear. But it's it's affirming. It's affirming to see that, you know, obviously we're operating in different spaces and have different clients. And it's just it's a pattern that I frankly, it keeps me up at night, Jill, to think about what is this next generation of leaders being being prepared for, being positioned for. Because this, and just to that same point about the LSE research, which is fascinating, it's this idea of senior leaders holding on to so much too, because that energy of overfunctioning sometimes comes through from a lens of I want to make sure I stay relevant so I don't absolutely, absolutely, right?

Proving To Positioning Identity Shift

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Because what COVID taught us is we don't need a hall monitor anymore, right? We don't need someone who's just checking on everyone, right? We need someone. And this is a conversation I've been having uh in my work doing working with Meta, conversation I've been having there, in which many ICs, independent contributors, and when we also think about leaders, right? Many leaders also have to be ICs. There's a part of their work that I don't care, even if you are leading, you have to pause, think, think strategically. What's the vision? What's the mission? How are you doing this? And then you need to delegate. But if you're not able to think strategically for yourself first and map out what needs to get done, again, one for you, two for the others that you're influencing. Again, this is where when we're in this type of environment where they're making cuts, I beg companies to not cut the professional development because it's sure you could read a book or two, but unless you're actually there in working with teams and doing dynamic work and understanding how it impacts the entire organization because the decisions we're making, you don't really understand that you have a rock star team potentially, but they're not realizing that potential because of the lack of leadership development. And again, when the strength becomes the blind spot in this. Um, okay, so there was a couple other things you said. You mentioned before um about talking about shifting from proving to positioning, and this is one that can like make me itch on the inside. So tell our listeners, tell them what that looks like, and then tell them how to fix it.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So I really feel like this is the identity shift. This is the real work. Letting go of being that one who always delivers because that really is simply code for proving. And letting go of that can feel like you're losing your edge, like I said. But your next level doesn't require more effort, it requires a different identity. You have to name the fear. You have to say, you have to call yourself out on the fact that if I don't do it, will it fall apart? Because that's really the fear that's leading you. If I speak more directly, will I be seen as too much? These are the fears that are oftentimes sort of aligned with that fact that we've we've had all of this competence for so many years. So calling it out, it really does require what where am I so uncomfortable to let others lead in this moment to carry something forward? And I think too, really anchoring into what you just named a couple of seconds ago, you have to give yourself the space to be devoted to more of that strategic thinking so that you can articulate a vision clearly so that people can actually go forth and carry it through. And when you don't do that, people are left in a swirl within your team. They're not clear where you want things to go. They're constantly double checking, triple checking with you. Is this what you meant? Or did I misunderstand it? So I think that really calling out that shift to move away from the knee-jerk reaction to need to prove or to fix or to solve, and really start, you know, I hate to be so cliche with this as a as a coach, but really lean into the curiosity. What's happening in your team? Where are they able to elevate answers and solutions? And then where can you provide guidance where it's necessary instead of feeling like you need to carry it yourself? I think this is where the identity shift that goes that moves away from doer that got you here to this leadership role and and shifting into uh overseeing, you know, really. Providing that level of technical oversight that you were hired for. And this might make some folks uncomfortable who are listening. But I know it for a fact that when I stepped into my very first senior leadership role, I was overseeing a team of over 15 people, multiple time zones, completely remote. There was a almost like a grieving, Grant uh Jill, uh a grieving that was associated with I'm not the one doing the work anymore. I'm managing, I'm managing.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

I'm managing. I'm managing, I'm leading. I don't necessarily know where I'm leading yet because I'm still waiting to understand the job that I'm in to know how to lead. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

And and really, I think there's such a sense of worthiness in being able to be the the useful, the executor.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I need I'm useful, I'm the executor. And there's me in that too. There isn't a lot of things. Now I can physically show you what work I produced. This is what I did today, right? I mean, I I come up from a strategy lens. That's where I've spent the bulk of my career last uh almost 10 years now as a coach full-time, but prior to that as strategy. And when I got more and more senior in strategy, there were days where I would literally be in a little bit of a panic, like, uh-oh, what if someone asked me what I did today? I don't have anything tangible to show you. Now, you could check my browser history and see the 86 research surveys that I read, and you could see my scraps of notes of pulling together thoughts and things and how that might impact the strategy that we're working on, but I couldn't show you anything. And that was that was a real nervous system regulation where no, and catch me in the hallway or near the water fountain, and I'm gonna tell you what I did today, but I may not have something tangible to show you. And that was a big step change of leadership.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

It's it's a huge shift because you have associated your success, your usefulness, your worthiness in your role with your output. That's what got you there. And I think the shift I had to learn this, I work with my clients all the time about this very fact is that allow yourself to be recognized in what got you here and provide that level of expertise and insight because that's what you were actually hired for. But there's a safety in going, I don't mean to say this, but going backwards to what was comfortable and what was known to what was celebrated and rewarded, as opposed to really leaning into this sort of next level leadership identity. I love that. Um because it's the first time that they've been there, or maybe the second. Right, right. Yeah.

Precision Language That Signals Authority

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Um, all right. So you also mention leadership communication, and like I call it like precision communication. Give an example, if you could, of what it's not and what it is, maybe like the same example. Here's how you wouldn't say it, and here's how you would say it.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, I love this. I think about this a lot in terms of our communication styles. And there's a certain way that we communicate that signals readiness, that signals, you know, grounded authority. And I would a lot of times I will work with my leadership clients who tend to be women often, um, to move away from just checking to rather saying, here's my perspective. I think maybe perhaps what I'm seeing is I I cannot there's like a caginess that I'm sensing.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Like there's like we we're we're again going back to gender and structural bias. When I'm direct, I'm the B word, I'm difficult, I'm hard. So how do we one, regardless of our gender, understand that that's a prevalent thing that's going on and actually really listening? That are they being the B-word or are they just being direct?

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yeah, and well, I think directness has been sort of hijacked as being a dirty word. Aggressive, right? Aggressive, right, difficult. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think communication styles that that that you can see have shorter sentences, fewer qualifiers, more direction, um, allow people to get clear really quickly where you stand. So I always say this that executive presence isn't about confidence, it's actually about clarity under pressure. I always tell people if your listeners take anything away from today's episode, take the question. Does that make sense? Completely out of your drop it entirely. And especially for any women listening, drop that makes sense entirely.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

It almost, I think, becomes a conversation filler that you don't know how to put the visual period on what you just said. So it becomes a conversation filler. So what should they say instead is they're again working on their ability to have that precision conversation?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Well, I think be be confident in your ability to communicate ideas precisely and be okay with the silence. Because I think whenever anyone asks, does that make sense? You've likely said something.

Better Ways To Check Understanding

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Okay, so let me ask you this then. What if I'm a leader and I'm not just speaking, but I'm giving a how-to or an informational discussion to my peers. And I want to make sure it makes sense, but I still think that's super weak language. What would you suggest I say instead if I'm checking for feedback and trying to read the room?

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Checking for feedback is absolutely a great leadership strategy. And I would say to a leader, asking the audience, not to say, does it make sense? Because it puts people on edge. No one's gonna say no, it didn't make sense. You could kind of lean on a bit of a Socratic method. Say you're in a virtual call, you could call on someone to say, Hey, I know this work is gonna impact you directly. So I just want to make sure, what did you hear?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

So what did you hear? That's a good phrase, people. Get that down. What did you hear? Um, I think I've also at times said things like, uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, thoughts, opinions, objections, and just again, owning it and saying, like, you might have a thought, opinion, or objection. Let's let's roll.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Feel free to bring that forward. I think the more you normalize those types of spaces for dialogue, that people are actually getting more primed, as opposed to, okay, here's another meeting where I'm just listening to Jill because she's just going to talk at us. Talk. Right. Space for that, for that two-sided uh communication. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

I was joking with a former colleague this morning about um our CEO. And I just remember one time someone just kept saying, I think, I think that, well, I think that. And she like lost it, and she was like, I don't give a bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep what you think. I want to know what you bleep and believe. And everyone was like, okay. But you know what? It was, I mean, it's it's what 15 plus years later, and I'm still like, you know what? She's right. I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

It's a mind drop moment.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

It's a mind drop. I want to know what you believe. And if you're picking up what we're laying down, there's a difference in that energy. Cause I think is a little bit like, I'm verbally processing, I'm working this out loud, which is fine in certain areas and certain circles, maybe not for the boardroom.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But Jill, one thing just to call out right here. Anyone who's using language that says, I think, or maybe this could be, is actually hedging their bets in that very moment. They're afraid of being rejected in that moment, which is a very human experience. Yes. I get it. But the more that you sort of hide behind that language, you're not, I mean, let's call it what it is. It's exposure therapy. When you can actually say, here's the here's what I'm seeing, here's my perspective. And let's just see where that led. And let's see where it goes. Yeah. If I just say to folks, I think maybe, then I won't be called out for being wrong because I was only because you were soft in it.

Action Steps And Listener Qs

SPEAKER_01 31:08

It wasn't that hard in it. I just said, I think. Yeah. Um, I would say, you know, for our listeners, without sounding weird, maybe those are that that's language you can practice with uh safer circles, friends, family, um, and just minor ways where you're not gonna turn your friendship conversation into a business conversation. Right, but just watch. Even it's even good to watch your um uh, you know, um, right? It it's it's speech language and and the fillers that we use. That also impacts how we're communicating. Um, it's hard work. I have a dear friend who's a PhD in speech rhetoric, and this is what one of the things that she teaches is really how to find the anchor words that work for you versus like filler words. Um, and again, uh opportunity to be practicing in safer circles. All right. So as we start to close, what are two to three things that you would suggest somebody does after listening to this episode or watching us?

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Yeah, I mean I would say start to take inventory of your language. How often, if you can have a notepad by your by your desk and kind of take stock of how many times you aren't softening your position, how much you're hesitating, maybe you're trying not to be perceived as difficult. Um, I would say take take stock of that and really start to ask yourself, why was I doing it in that moment? Because we're all super busy. So I would say that's a really easy, uh, an easy lift. And I would say perhaps maybe this week, maybe the next month, the next time something seems to have fallen off the off a team's radar, or that it needs to get done and you think that you're the only one in the room to fix it, challenge yourself to figure out who else could take take up the mantle in that moment. You are a leader for a reason and you are being looked at, regarded, hailed as the one with the vision, the one with the one who's driving the team. And so if you can resist that urge to have to fix and problem solve right in that moment and start to ask questions around the room, because likely the solution is in that room and call someone forward to be inspired to maybe take on a little bit more of a leadership role themselves. Perfect. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

And we are gonna end on that. Friends, thank you so much for listening to us today. And we're gonna thank Dina. If you have questions for me or Dina, send us an email at hello at JillGriffincoaching.com. We will get the question to Dina. We will bring her back. I'm already saying that we're gonna bring her back. I would be honest. I feel like she would come back and talk to us. And and again, try some of these ideas that she is suggesting. Really watch your language and really think about who you're being and is that serving you? Is that playing to your blind spot? And how do you really want to think about delegation? Coach your people, don't tell them every single thing they need to do. Have an amazing week. Be intentional and always, always, always be kind. We'll see you soon.